Remaining Class 365s leaving GN - What next for the 365s?

[D365]

But the proposal here (if you follow the conversation back) was 387s to Southern instead, which are already dual voltage. Getting a bit OT in amongst 365 proposals of course...

Gotcha. That's why I was confused.

WAGN wanted to do that, of course - extend some Peterborough services to Doncaster. ORR turned it down.

Such a service may hopefully be possible post-HS2...

 

[Fincra5]

One thing to consider is that GX 387s are fairly utilised during this Gatwick Works (when Salfords doesn't have a Landslip on the DN Fast) as the "Southern" Brighton-Victoria expresses (12 Car every 30mins), and there's also a number of 4 cars that run between Brighton and Hastings/Ore.

The Timetable is being reduced for [Insert Time Here] on the 22nd, and I can imagine the 387s will cease on the East Coastway Services, for now...

 

[Cam317]

According to online sources, Great Northern are planning to remove all class 365s from service by May, to be replaced by 6 ctc and 6 gatwick express 387s. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[James Kevill]

What kind of Online sources?

 

[Cam317]

What kind of Online sources?

on Instagram: "Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards. They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital

293 likes, 15 comments - uk_railnews on February 14, 2021: "Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards. They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital...

www.instagram.com

 

[James Kevill]

on Instagram: "Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards. They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital

293 likes, 15 comments - uk_railnews on February 14, 2021: "Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards. They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital...

www.instagram.com

Thanks

 

[Cam317]

Thanks

Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards.

They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital Connect) for many years, running out of London Kings Cross to Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Baldock, and Peterborough.

It is currently speculated that the replacement will be 6 c2c and 6 Gatwick Express Class 387s. There is less need for units due to reduced demand as a result of the Coronavirus (Covid-19) pandemic. For this reason, the peak time services from London Kings Cross to Baldock and/or Peterborough may be withdrawn, but this is just speculation at this point.

There is also talk of a battery trial taking place with the EMU fleet, and speculative discussions are taking place about which routes these may be tested and/or operated on.

Thanks

from @uk_railnews on instagram, link may not have worked.

 

[James Kevill]

Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards.

They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital Connect) for many years, running out of London Kings Cross to Cambridge, Kings Lynn, Baldock, and Peterborough.

It is currently speculated that the replacement will be 6 c2c and 6 Gatwick Express Class 387s. There is less need for units due to reduced demand as a result of the Coronavirus (Covid-19) pandemic. For this reason, the peak time services from London Kings Cross to Baldock and/or Peterborough may be withdrawn, but this is just speculation at this point.

There is also talk of a battery trial taking place with the EMU fleet, and speculative discussions are taking place about which routes these may be tested and/or operated on.


from @uk_railnews on instagram, link may not have worked.

If they are converted into Battery Electric Multiple Units after that, what will they go to? Could it be to Northern of England, West Midlands, East Midlands, Wales or West of England?

 

[JonathanH]

What kind of Online sources?

This forum appears to be the online source https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/remaining-class-365s-leaving-gn-what-next-for-the-365s.214108/

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The GN fleet is being reduced due to the reduction in passenger numbers.

It has been confirmed that the remaining 21 x Class 365s will be leaving GN and placed into storage. What next for the 365s? Scrape or moved to another operator?

GN to get 6 x 387/2 units from Gatwick Express and another 6 x 387s from C2C.

Scrap. No use flogging a dead horse. There’s no need for them when thirty far newer 350/2s and 379s are available instead.

 

[Skimble19]

on Instagram: "Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards. They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital

293 likes, 15 comments - uk_railnews on February 14, 2021: "Great Northern are reportedly planning to remove their Class 365 units from service by May of this year. They are planned to go into storage afterwards. They have operated with Great Northern (and previous operators like First Capital...

www.instagram.com

That appears to be compiled from comments on this forum, so I’m not sure I would class that as a source. The Instagram post itself even says it’s just speculation, there has been no official confirmation about this yet. The proposed mix of 387 replacements seems a little unlikely, although these days I guess anything is possible.

 

[D365]

Scrap. No use flogging a dead horse. There’s no need for them when thirty far newer 350/2s and 379s are available instead.

It’s up to the market to decide that. If Porterbrook and Macquarie don’t play ball with their respective fleets, there may still be a place for the 365s.

 

[physics34]

I knew the Gatwick units shouldnt have been delivered in red!!

 

[Chiltern006]

in a post covid world, is the GX brand going to be financially viable, with air travel most probably not expected to return to pre covid levels. should the remaining 387s be put into a Southern livery, and the GX paths used for Southern fast Brighton runs, as per Summer 2020. with the brand out of use for nearly a year does this seem more sensible? The only thing they will be making better money from will be Gatwick to Victoria, with Brighton fares now matching Southern fares. Is this financially viable?

 

[physics34]

in a post covid world, is the GX brand going to be financially viable, with air travel most probably not expected to return to pre covid levels. should the remaining 387s be put into a Southern livery, and the GX paths used for Southern fast Brighton runs, as per Summer 2020. with the brand out of use for nearly a year does this seem more sensible? The only thing they will be making better money from will be Gatwick to Victoria, with Brighton fares now matching Southern fares. Is this financially viable?

Its hardly premium anyway so i dont see the point in it remaining. Interesting to know how many long haul flights will leave from Gatwick after the pandemic. A few airlines have left, although maybe temporarily.

 

[jon0844]

This forum appears to be the online source https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/remaining-class-365s-leaving-gn-what-next-for-the-365s.214108/

I noticed chatter on Twitter that also used here as the source. While I am not denying the original claim is indeed true, it does seem funny that other sources are cited which are citing here!

Given the dispatch requirements of a 365 (worse in the winter months), changing 365s for 387s will make things a lot easier to operate.

 

[Fincra5]

Its hardly premium anyway so i dont see the point in it remaining. Interesting to know how many long haul flights will leave from Gatwick after the pandemic. A few airlines have left, although maybe temporarily.

Up to Gatwick Airport and the DfT however....

 

[southern442]

in a post covid world, is the GX brand going to be financially viable, with air travel most probably not expected to return to pre covid levels. should the remaining 387s be put into a Southern livery, and the GX paths used for Southern fast Brighton runs, as per Summer 2020. with the brand out of use for nearly a year does this seem more sensible? The only thing they will be making better money from will be Gatwick to Victoria, with Brighton fares now matching Southern fares. Is this financially viable?

I quite like the idea of them being done up as 'Southern Express' units (perhaps they could be painted in the original 387/1 livery with the quite cool green bar underneath the windows) and be done up and made to work the fastest/longest-distance mainline routes. Plus, getting rid of GatEx completely would free up 2 extra paths per hour from Victoria at least as far as Gatwick which could certainly be interesting.

 

[JonathanH]

Plus, getting rid of GatEx completely would free up 2 extra paths per hour from Victoria at least as far as Gatwick which could certainly be interesting.

Yes, and no further (without getting in the way of something else) which is why those paths end at Gatwick.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yes, and no further (without getting in the way of something else) which is why those paths end at Gatwick.

You could get them to Three Bridges and potentially Horsham just about, but it wouldn't be worth the hassle and would add more crossing moves at Gatwick. But beyond there the paths aren't really available. There are currently 12tph on the BML south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction. 14tph south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction is probably doable but there are issues as to where you would send the services. Brighton station pre covid has 8 tph from London going to it and the limited platform capacity means its not really possible to get anymore. Sending anymore services via Hove is a non starter as there isn't space, same with Lewes and Eastbourne meaning the only option is to turn them around at Haywards Heath, which again, probably isn't worth completely redoing the timetable for and would make an already unreliable section of the BML even more unreliabe. Its possible but won't happen.

 

[JonathanH]

You could get them to Three Bridges and potentially Horsham just about, but it wouldn't be worth the hassle and would add more crossing moves at Gatwick. But beyond there the paths aren't really available. There are currently 12tph on the BML south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction. 14tph south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction is probably doable but there are issues as to where you would send the services. Brighton station pre covid has 8 tph from London going to it and the limited platform capacity means its not really possible to get anymore. Sending anymore services via Hove is a non starter as there isn't space, same with Lewes and Eastbourne meaning the only option is to turn them around at Haywards Heath, which again, probably isn't worth completely redoing the timetable for and would make an already unreliable section of the BML even more unreliabe. Its possible but won't happen.

Yes. The Thameslink departure in front of the Gatwick path stops at Three Bridges and Balcombe and the Littlehampton behind is only two minutes behind at Haywards Heath. There is therefore no path beyond Three Bridges (and of course the platform issues mentioned at Brighton).

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yes. The Thameslink departure in front of the Gatwick path stops at Three Bridges and Balcombe and the Littlehampton behind is only two minutes behind at Haywards Heath. There is therefore no path beyond Three Bridges (and of course the platform issues mentioned at Brighton).

If there was a big desire to extent these services the timetable could be recasted to accomidate them. There is a little spare capacity south of Balcombe Tunnel Junction. The point is there isn't and there won't be for a while but its not impossible, the WTT can be changed. Just a lot of work for not much benefit.

 

[southern442]

It may be possible to create a new all day Victoria - Three Bridges service, perhaps giving a faster service to Redhill or something along those lines. Anyways it would only happen in response to demand, but the point is that there are some extra paths to play with north of Gatwick should they ever be needed.

Going slightly more on-topic, with regards to the 387's from Gatwick Express going to GN, if hypothetically things were to magically improve and GatEx returns, would those missing 6 units have a detrimental effect to the service? As much as we seem to think GX isn't needed, it is (as someone else pointed out) up to DfT and the airport to decide that, and most likely it will be back in some form. Would this move-over be a permanent measure?

 

[skyhigh]

Allegedly (according to posts on another forum) the 365s are passing back from DfT ownership to the original ROSCO. Don't know if that has any bearing on their use.

 

[Hadders]

Allegedly (according to posts on another forum) the 365s are passing back from DfT ownership to the original ROSCO. Don't know if that has any bearing on their use.

They are already owned by the DfT and have been for a year or so.

 

[43096]

They are already owned by the DfT and have been for a year or so.

Read what "skyhigh" wrote again!

 

[Hadders]

Read what "skyhigh" wrote again!

Oops, my apologies!

 

[whoosh]

Going slightly more on-topic, with regards to the 387's from Gatwick Express going to GN, if hypothetically things were to magically improve and GatEx returns, would those missing 6 units have a detrimental effect to the service? As much as we seem to think GX isn't needed, it is (as someone else pointed out) up to DfT and the airport to decide that, and most likely it will be back in some form. Would this move-over be a permanent measure?

There was a rumour that GN would get 379s to replace 365s, but that seems to have changed to the 6 c2c 387s along with 6 GX 387s. This would mean no Driver Conversion costs, and multiple working without any adaptation - so fewer spare units needed in comparison as only one fleet, and also intense and less intense diagrams would be balanced out amongst all the members of a larger fleet.
A reduction in travel generally could be absorbed across GN, GX, and c2c in the medium term.

In the long term, there would still be 30 379s available to go somewhere should passenger numbers pick up.
Could the software on them be changed so that multiple running with 387s could take place (upto 100mph. 387s only run at upto 100mph on the GN presently anyway)?
Could third rail shoes be fitted to them?

I don't think it would be too much hard work for either of those things to happen to broaden the options available, North or South of the river, but the apparent current plan of the 6 GX and 6 c2c 387 units seems sensible.

 

[Fincra5]

There was a rumour that GN would get 379s to replace 365s, but that seems to have changed to the 6 c2c 387s along with 6 GX 387s. This would mean no Driver Conversion costs, and multiple working without any adaptation - so fewer spare units needed in comparison as only one fleet, and also intense and less intense diagrams would be balanced out amongst all the members of a larger fleet.
A reduction in travel generally could be absorbed across GN, GX, and c2c in the medium term.

In the long term, there would still be 30 379s available to go somewhere should passenger numbers pick up.
Could the software on them be changed so that multiple running with 387s could take place (upto 100mph. 387s only run at upto 100mph on the GN presently anyway)?
Could third rail shoes be fitted to them?

I don't think it would be too much hard work for either of those things to happen to broaden the options available, North or South of the river, but the apparent current plan of the 6 GX and 6 c2c 387 units seems sensible.

It's probably possible to change the TMS system on a 379 and fit DC Gear...

However it's probably more hassle and expense than a 1 Day (30min) conversion course from 387 to 379..

387s and 377s -379s are very similar inside the cab and have mostly the same equipment..387s with the new TPWS Panel and some buttons are removed or moved etc!

I have a feeling and 387 move from GX would be temporary, possibly until 379s come available... I can see 387s coming back south of the River, they've already got 3rd Rail Equipment etc... 110mph isn't used anyway on the GN.

 

[365 Networker]

Allegedly (according to posts on another forum) the 365s are passing back from DfT ownership to the original ROSCO. Don't know if that has any bearing on their use.

Do you have a link?