Remaining Class 365s leaving GN - What next for the 365s?

[southern442]

With any big re-jigging of second hand units, there will be several teething troubles, as the 769s, 442s and 230s have taught us. The question is, is the age of the units worth it to have a shaky 6 months or so and then have them run fairly well after that? Class 458s are 20 years old, so if they are looked after well (which I know they have not been by SWR) it could mean any potential new operator could get another 15 years out of them. The 360s will be 25 this year, so maybe another 10, which I'd say would only just warrant anything being done to them, so it depends upon how quickly whoever has an eye on them can get them sorted out.

 

[greatvoyager]

With any big re-jigging of second hand units, there will be several teething troubles, as the 769s, 442s and 230s have taught us. The question is, is the age of the units worth it to have a shaky 6 months or so and then have them run fairly well after that? Class 458s are 20 years old, so if they are looked after well (which I know they have not been by SWR) it could mean any potential new operator could get another 15 years out of them. The 360s will be 25 this year, so maybe another 10, which I'd say would only just warrant anything being done to them, so it depends upon how quickly whoever has an eye on them can get them sorted out.

Class 360s were built from 2002, so are only 19.

 

[southern442]

Class 360s were built from 2002, so are only 19.

I think they've served the network well with few problems that spring to mind, I could see them even lasting another 20 years on the East Midlands if they were allowed to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they've served the network well with few problems that spring to mind, I could see them even lasting another 20 years on the East Midlands if they were allowed to.

I'd imagine so. Heavy and conventional, but well-built, the 350s and 360s are popular with passengers and highly reliable. In my view the best "third generation" EMU.

 

[physics34]

With any big re-jigging of second hand units, there will be several teething troubles, as the 769s, 442s and 230s have taught us. The question is, is the age of the units worth it to have a shaky 6 months or so and then have them run fairly well after that? Class 458s are 20 years old, so if they are looked after well (which I know they have not been by SWR) it could mean any potential new operator could get another 15 years out of them. The 360s will be 25 this year, so maybe another 10, which I'd say would only just warrant anything being done to them, so it depends upon how quickly whoever has an eye on them can get them sorted out.

Im sure they are looking back at the 442, 319, D stock and 458 refurbs and thinking "was it worth it" considering this pandemic and the requirement for this stock post covid. We shall see.

 

[southern442]

Im sure they are looking back at the 442, 319, D stock and 458 refurbs and thinking "was it worth it" considering this pandemic and the requirement for this stock post covid. We shall see.

In hindsight the 458 refurb certainly wasn't in my opinion. At the time they were very reliable units that were very well-suited to the route they operated on, and so were the 460's, and this could have continued into the present day. Additionally, SWT ended up getting more 5-car units anyway, and then SWR came along and decided to replace the whole suburban fleet. So in hindsight, it probably wasn't worth upgrading these units to 5-car for what was essentially a short-term 10-car boost when eventually they would end up achieving this through other means. It probably would've been infinitely less troublesome to add a 5th coach into some 450's.

 

[AM9]

In hindsight the 458 refurb certainly wasn't in my opinion. At the time they were very reliable units that were very well-suited to the route they operated on, and so were the 460's, and this could have continued into the present day. Additionally, SWT ended up getting more 5-car units anyway, and then SWR came along and decided to replace the whole suburban fleet. So in hindsight, it probably wasn't worth upgrading these units to 5-car for what was essentially a short-term 10-car boost when eventually they would end up achieving this through other means. It probably would've been infinitely less troublesome to add a 5th coach into some 450's.

If that was possible, it could have been a very useful mod. The 3rd rail Desiros are all software capped on maximum power draw, so the additional weight of an unpowered trailer could easily be mitigated by raising the 450s power cap from 50% (ISTR) to 6o%, which would probably balnce out the power, (with a small penalty in adhesion).

 

[Domh245]

In hindsight the 458 refurb certainly wasn't in my opinion. At the time they were very reliable units that were very well-suited to the route they operated on, and so were the 460's, and this could have continued into the present day. Additionally, SWT ended up getting more 5-car units anyway, and then SWR came along and decided to replace the whole suburban fleet. So in hindsight, it probably wasn't worth upgrading these units to 5-car for what was essentially a short-term 10-car boost when eventually they would end up achieving this through other means. It probably would've been infinitely less troublesome to add a 5th coach into some 450's.

5-7 years of ~45% extra capacity isn't to be sniffed at though, and the likelihood of wholesale fleet replacement will have been in the minds of those authorising the works (along with the rest of the 10 car package in 707s, 456s and 455 motor replacement).

I'm not sure about infinitely less troublesome, but some lengthened 450s certainly wouldn't have gone amiss.

 

[swt_passenger]

In hindsight the 458 refurb certainly wasn't in my opinion. At the time they were very reliable units that were very well-suited to the route they operated on, and so were the 460's, and this could have continued into the present day. Additionally, SWT ended up getting more 5-car units anyway, and then SWR came along and decided to replace the whole suburban fleet. So in hindsight, it probably wasn't worth upgrading these units to 5-car for what was essentially a short-term 10-car boost when eventually they would end up achieving this through other means. It probably would've been infinitely less troublesome to add a 5th coach into some 450's.

The SWT 458 and 456 “solution” was a penny pinching fudge - the original tender was for 120-180 vehicles in 5 car formation able to multiple with existing stock, ie 450s. What they got after a long delay was only an extra 108 vehicles, (60+48).

The 707 order was a further completely separate growth order, that wasn’t directly connected to the earlier half hearted increase, so most of it would have been needed anyway.