Remaining on a service beyond the ‘&Connections’ point

[TUC]

Where an Advance ticket specifies a service for part of a journey, but leaves an open ‘&Connections’ for the rest of the journey, what is the position if the specified service covers part of the rest of the route (e.g. It duplicates the connecting service’s route for part of the rest of the journey)? Is it acceptable to remain on that service for a longer part of the route-effectively to treat that as a connecting service- and join the remaining connections from a station further along (which would be the same TOCs and services for the connecting journey as would have been the case from the specified station)?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Where an Advance ticket specifies a service for part of a journey, but leaves an open ‘&Connections’ for the rest of the journey, what is the position if the specified service covers part of the rest of the route (e.g. It duplicates the connecting service’s route for part of the rest of the journey)? Is it acceptable to remain on that service for a longer part of the route-effectively to treat that as a connecting service- and join the remaining connections from a station further along (which would be the same TOCs and services for the connecting journey as would have been the case from the specified station)?

You have to use the services for which you have reservations, and then use "appropriate connecting services" (compliant with any TOC or route restriction printed on the ticket) for the rest of your journey. It might well be that continuing to travel on the same service forms an appropriate connecting service, in which case you can do exactly that.

There is an internal staff briefing which purports that you must only take non-reservable services for legs where you don't have reservations but I'm happy to say that it's a load of bunkum which has no basis in the NRCoT or the Advance terms.

If the TOCs wanted to introduce such a restriction then they would need to change the terms, and also make it possible to find out whether or not a service carries reservations far more easily than they currently do. Hint - whether or not seat reservations can be seen is not the test!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Advance tickets MUST have a reservation on reservable services. TIS will not allow them to be sold without . If they were valid without a reservation on a reservable service then the accreditation standards would allow TIS to sell ticket that way.

 

[causton]

Advance tickets MUST have a reservation on reservable services. TIS will not allow them to be sold without . If they were valid without a reservation on a reservable service then the accreditation standards would allow TIS to sell ticket that way.

I don't think that is quite what is being proposed.

Say for example an advance Leeds - Welwyn Garden City (and let's say the train stops at Peterborough and Stevenage)

The itinerary and corresponding reservation might tell you to go Leeds - Peterborough, then Peterborough - Welwyn Garden City.
But it might be just as fast to stay on the same train Leeds - Stevenage, then Stevenage - Welwyn Garden City.

 

[30907]

I don't think that is quite what is being proposed.

Say for example an advance Leeds - Welwyn Garden City (and let's say the train stops at Peterborough and Stevenage)

The itinerary and corresponding reservation might tell you to go Leeds - Peterborough, then Peterborough - Welwyn Garden City.
But it might be just as fast to stay on the same train Leeds - Stevenage, then Stevenage - Welwyn Garden City.

The train manager might have discretion to allow this.
On the other hand, an Advsnce fare routed via Stevenage might be rather higher (I haven't checked) and this might be an issue.
Other examples that come to mind are Exeter and Newton Abbot, Preston and Lancaster.

 

[dmncf]

There is an internal staff briefing which purports that you must only take non-reservable services for legs where you don't have reservations but I'm happy to say that it's a load of bunkum which has no basis in the NRCoT or the Advance terms.

If the TOCs wanted to introduce such a restriction then they would need to change the terms, and also make it possible to find out whether or not a service carries reservations far more easily than they currently do. Hint - whether or not seat reservations can be seen is not the test!

I agree. I recently had Advance Single tickets from Weston-super-Mare to London, tied to seat reservations on a specific train from Bristol Temple Mead to London Paddington. If I wanted to have a typical connection time at Bristol I would have travelled on a GWR local service from Weston-super-Mare on which seat reservations weren't offered. Instead I wanted a long connection time at Bristol because I was travelling with someone with reduced mobility, so we caught an earlier train from Weston-super-Mare that turned out to be a Crosscounty train on which seat reservations were possible. The availability of seat reservations was irrelevant to my decision and I hope it will continue to be irrelevant to the validity of my ticket.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The train manager might have discretion to allow this.

It's not a matter of discretion - they'd simply have no basis to complain if you did stay on (without asking).

 

[robbeech]

I don't think that is quite what is being proposed.

Say for example an advance Leeds - Welwyn Garden City (and let's say the train stops at Peterborough and Stevenage)

The itinerary and corresponding reservation might tell you to go Leeds - Peterborough, then Peterborough - Welwyn Garden City.
But it might be just as fast to stay on the same train Leeds - Stevenage, then Stevenage - Welwyn Garden City.

Taking this example if you have a reservation to Peterborough and are told to get appropriate connecting services how on earth is a guard supposed to convince you or a court that a rule which you’ve not been told about and isn’t documented in anywhere that you could have reasonably looked before the contract was made when you bought the ticket exists.
Now the other way around, if you had a reservation to Stevenage but you got off at Peterborough would be a problem and whilst in practise you’d likely not have too much of a problem, staff would be well within their rights to take action.

 

[route101]

On a soutbound Virgin train ,the guard announced those connecting to Liverpool should remain on the train and change at Wigan , train was late

 

[jaffa]

Further to this, is it valid to use a non reservable service if your advance ticket specifies a reservable service?

This would be the same route, just if a non reservable service arrived first when you were changing trains and it was quicker to do so.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Further to this, is it valid to use a non reservable service if your advance ticket specifies a reservable service?

This would be the same route, just if a non reservable service arrived first when you were changing trains and it was quicker to do so.

When travelling with an Advance, you must take the exact trains on which you have been given compulsory reservations, unless there is disruption or you have been authorised to do otherwise.