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Removing abandoned railway carriages?

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Lozzy0603

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Hi All,

Who's responsibility is it to remove abandoned railway carriages from the network, either in or out of use tracks?
To clarify 'abandoned' I'm thinking of the ex-royal mail carriages on the lines to the south of the Princess Royal Mail Distribution Centre 'Brent Sidings' WCML or the flat wagons stored in Hanwell Bridge Sidings GWML.
Are some of these assets just to be left until Network Rail decide to sell some of the land off, re-use the land and then clear up?
Surely there must be an owner for some of this equipment, who has a duty to dispose of equipment correctly weather the railway track is in use or not?

Thanks.
 
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trebor79

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Can't answer your question directly but presumably if Network Rail don't need the track for anything else they just stay there? Perhaps their scrap value is lower than the cost of removing them, given some are probably no longer fit to move on the main line?
It's not unusual to see stuff forgotten about. I remember back in the late 90s and early 2000s when I was regularly travelling between Bristol and the north east, there were several tank waggons lying on their side at the bottom of an embankment somewhere in the Burton area. They appeared to have been there for quite some time. Obviously the result of some kind of mishap and they would have been difficult/expensive to recover. I wonder if they're still there?
 

dubscottie

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In alot of cases the stock will be stored on land owned by the owner of the stock so its not Network Rails responsibility.

For example most of the freight yards and sidings are owned by DBC not Network Rail.

They might be forced to remove stock if its a hazard to trespassers etc.
 

pdeaves

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Sometimes (I don't know about this specific case) old rail vehicles are deliberately parked in certain places to form a sound barrier. There were definitely some at Oxford Hinksey yard a few years ago (since replaced) that even had 'extensions' upwards on them!
 

Elwyn

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I am a bit puzzled as to why there should be any duty on someone to remove abandoned carriages? If you own something and the land it’s on you can normally keep it as long as you like, unless it’s hazardous. If there was a formal duty to move all abandoned carriages, many a heritage line would have to have a massive clear out. (Perhaps not a bad idea in some cases).
 

a_c_skinner

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why there should be any duty on someone to remove abandoned carriages?

Pride in one's job - in the broadest sense, I'm not getting at anyone in particular. People are a lot happier in job that puts emphasis on pride. doing it well and so on.
 

pompeyfan

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Micheldever oil terminal is another one that has multiple rakes of the blue articulated car carriers used on the trains to Southampton Eastern docks. I assume both the land and stock is owned by DBC. I’m surprised SWR or NR haven’t made use of it for stabling purposes.
 

Master29

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. If there was a formal duty to move all abandoned carriages, many a heritage line would have to have a massive clear out. (Perhaps not a bad idea in some cases).
There are plenty of those around too. It`s a shame many haven`t been restored but given the condition some of them are in perhaps they`re a bit beyond that.
 

Alanko

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Are you sure you aren't just casually dissing your local heritage railway outfit? :D

In my local area there is an old overhead line inspection/installation train languishing at Craigentinny. It is little more than a line of very faded, and heavily modified, coaches. There is also a long disused crane of some sort stored at the east end of Polmadie that hasn't moved for a very long time. I like them as they made journeys more interesting. Likewise I found the old 'Nightstar' generator coach at Doncaster quite interesting. Anything that falls through a crack in time like this is interesting to me, though unsightly to others. I passed a lot of faded maroon MK2s somewhere on the ECML and wanted to know their back story.

I assume that it is easier to store this stuff in purgatory. Presumably the weigh-in value for old coaching stock is pretty low, and there might be issues with seized bearings (etc) making them tricky to move. Is asbestos also a risk with these coaches as well? Perhaps then the cost of cleaning them up properly and getting them moving is too high? These then are stored 'out of sight and out of mind'.

They might be forced to remove stock if its a hazard to trespassers etc.

The Urbex community like to try and get into old railway stock, so this is maybe a good point. Check out the 28 Days Later forum and you find that the guys there enjoy risking life and limb to go crawling around smashed up coaches for some reason. Once a site becomes known to them then it ends up getting visited more and more. Things typically then get broken or lifted (though never by Urbex-ers, if you believe them).
 

Meerkat

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Things typically then get broken or lifted (though never by Urbex-ers, if you believe them).

I would be inclined to believe the Urbexers posting videos, but if you were a vandal/thief the Urbex websites would be a fantastic resource for finding out where was accessible and what was there.....
 

Silverlinky

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Hi All,

Who's responsibility is it to remove abandoned railway carriages from the network, either in or out of use tracks?
To clarify 'abandoned' I'm thinking of the ex-royal mail carriages on the lines to the south of the Princess Royal Mail Distribution Centre 'Brent Sidings' WCML or the flat wagons stored in Hanwell Bridge Sidings GWML.
Are some of these assets just to be left until Network Rail decide to sell some of the land off, re-use the land and then clear up?
Surely there must be an owner for some of this equipment, who has a duty to dispose of equipment correctly weather the railway track is in use or not?

Thanks.

The old vans at Brent Sidings are an eyesore....they must have been there for 15-20 years and have been grafittied to the point where they are just a mess....I can't beleive they haven't been burnt out by now!
There was an old MotorRail flat bed wagon at Camden Carriage sidings for many years, stuck on its own road, not getting in the way of anyone, all the movements into and out of Camden worked round it....until someone decided they needed a bit more capacity up there whereupon the wagon was chopped up on site and the road brought back into use.

As others have said below...until the space that these relics are taking up is needed, they'll just sit there growing old and getting rusty!
 

trebor79

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I remember in the mid-90s Rail magazine did something in conjunction with Railtrack(?). They asked readers to send in sightings of abandoned coaches and waggons so that they could be removed. A lot did seem to disappear around that time.
 

dubscottie

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I remember in the mid-90s Rail magazine did something in conjunction with Railtrack(?). They asked readers to send in sightings of abandoned coaches and waggons so that they could be removed. A lot did seem to disappear around that time.

There was tons of stock abandoned around then. Nobody wanted to claim some stuff because it would cost a fortune to remove or it contained Asbestos like the famous Mk1 in Newcastle that the local authority ended up moving IIRC.

There were other cases like a BG & Mk2 BFK at Perth, a few tank wagons in Dundee & the abandoned 101 trailer in Darlington.

There were a few cases of scrap "dealers" cutting up and removing (stealing) wagons that looked abandoned.
 
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Mordac

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I remember in the mid-90s Rail magazine did something in conjunction with Railtrack(?). They asked readers to send in sightings of abandoned coaches and waggons so that they could be removed. A lot did seem to disappear around that time.
Too bad no one reported that pile of rubbish next to the WCML in Carnforth. ;)
 

61653 HTAFC

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I would be inclined to believe the Urbexers posting videos, but if you were a vandal/thief the Urbex websites would be a fantastic resource for finding out where was accessible and what was there.....
Though most Urbexers won't reveal the exact location of their "quarry" for exactly that reason. There's always a few bad eggs of course, but most Urbex videos I've watched have been very much "look but don't touch" and at most will give a vague regional location often as broad as "we're in Wales".
 

Alanko

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Though most Urbexers won't reveal the exact location of their "quarry" for exactly that reason. There's always a few bad eggs of course, but most Urbex videos I've watched have been very much "look but don't touch" and at most will give a vague regional location often as broad as "we're in Wales".

There was an issue on one of the forums, because some graffiti tags appeared bearing the name of another forum member.

Too bad no one reported that pile of rubbish next to the WCML in Carnforth. ;)

I've never seen it in person, but I've seen it documented online. It looks like a graveyard for 37s and 47s! Do they all belong to West Coast rail?
 

J-Rod

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On the note of Urbex-ers... trashing/stealing from locations runs counter to what they're actually doing, which is documenting and exploring abandoned places - many of which have a story to tell. Personally, I find the whole escapade fascinating (but that's just me).
 

WesternLancer

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Too bad no one reported that pile of rubbish next to the WCML in Carnforth. ;)
They have got their 'outstation' at Hellifield - quite a modern shed (with nowt in it) then the rake of old RES stock.
 

Lozzy0603

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The workers working on the platform 10 extension at WFJ found a good use for the abandoned yellow wagons in Watford sidings - propping up the old London Midland Watford Junction large sign, that was removed from the platform edge.
With some flowers and lighting it would almost be picturesque.
 

Quakers Yard

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Before Stormstown yard became a loop there was a flat wagon stood in a siding for many years after Abercynon pit sidings were built on for the football field.
 

Oxfordblues

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Micheldever oil terminal is another one that has multiple rakes of the blue articulated car carriers used on the trains to Southampton Eastern docks. I assume both the land and stock is owned by DBC. I’m surprised SWR or NR haven’t made use of it for stabling purposes.
The 3 sets of WIA wagons left abandoned at Micheldever are a testament to the failure of DBC and Network Rail to address the disposal of redundant rolling stock. Covered in graffiti and in full view of passing trains they're a good advertisement for not sending your goods by rail. I don't believe the plan is to leave them there till the end of time; I believe there's no plan at all!
 

gimmea50anyday

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The Urbexers that visited the former railway social club underneath Manchester Victoria station - which is still there, hence the various stairs down dotted around the station building - I found fascinating. Beer pumps, pool table, seats, posters advertising live entertainment still there....
 
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