Reopening doors

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notadriver

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As a passenger on board a train, would you expect the doors to be reopened for someone who had turned up late for it?
 
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ainsworth74

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Expect it? No but I have seen it happen an awful lot on my local line. I've even been the beneficiary of it on one occasion so I have no complaint when it does happen as it could be me benefiting again in the future!

I've actually seen the driver take power before throwing on the brakes to allow the doors to be re-opened on one occasion!
 

skyhigh

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As a passenger, nope. If I'd managed to turn up in time for it, why couldn't they do so? Obviously it'd be a bit different if it was the last train of the night or there was a very low frequency, but if you're pressed for time you should plan for that. Although having said that, I wouldn't complain if the doors were reopened for another passenger running late.
 
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rebmcr

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On a quiet branch line/rural service with a guard, maybe.

Otherwise no.
 

NX

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When it's the last train I hold it until the last second, but if it's the middle of the day then it's a case of if I can be here on time, you could be to.

NX
 

scott118

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When it's the last train I hold it until the last second, but if it's the middle of the day then it's a case of if I can be here on time, you could be to.

NX

re-educating the public, is how i used to see it... did you also prioritise female over males?
 

thenorthern

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It happens on the Metrolink regularly but on National Rail if the guard is still on the platform after all the other doors have closed sometimes they say hop on here.
 

RPM

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I don't think it's anything to do with the passengers already on board the train so their opinions on it are irrelevant. It is the decision of the guard or DOO driver and that decision is entirely dependent upon circumstances;

- Is the train late or on time?
- Is it the last train of the day?
- What is the service frequency from that station?
- etc....

When working DOO I make the decision to reopen doors on a case by case basis. When I have done it I've never heard a complaint from any other passenger at the end of the journey. However, I do sometimes get thanked by the person I let on, which is nice.
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Seen a person allowed on when the doors have shut, though this was at an unmanned station during winter with an elderly lady concerned. Guard was just about to press the buzzer when he saw her shuffling onto the platform, so opened his local door and let her onboard and got her sat down before pressing the buzzer for the driver - result was we were about thirty seconds down in arrival, but a vulnerable person was not left in the cold and rain which was the best thing to do.

Of course, on my most recent trip on the Northern Weekend Rangers, I was a few seconds late getting through the barriers at Man Vic because they wouldn't accept the ticket. Got on the platform after the doors were all shut on a 150, but the female guard allowed me to get on using their slam door.
 

NX

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re-educating the public, is how i used to see it... did you also prioritise female over males?



Equal opportunities society......both sexes can tell the time.

But as I said last train, we wait if I can see you or you shout to draw my attention.

NX
 

westcoaster

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I don't think it's anything to do with the passengers already on board the train so their opinions on it are irrelevant. It is the decision of the guard or DOO driver and that decision is entirely dependent upon circumstances;

- Is the train late or on time?
- Is it the last train of the day?
- What is the service frequency from that station?
- etc....

When working DOO I make the decision to reopen doors on a case by case basis. When I have done it I've never heard a complaint from any other passenger at the end of the journey. However, I do sometimes get thanked by the person I let on, which is nice.

one major problem with re-releasing doors, is wrong side door release on the second ocasion especially if the monitors are on the non platform side.
 

Kettledrum

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Last year at St Pancras I was delayed by 20 seconds at the barrier not initially accepting my valid ticket. I ran to the end coach of my train to see the EMT Guard locking the central locking seconds before my hand touched the door handle.

Through the open HST window, she said "too late I've locked the doors" so I had a lengthy wait for my next train.

I was really angry. Either she hadn't made any attempt to look down the platform before she locked the doors, or she did it deliberately.

30 seconds later I was still standing on the platform as my train started to leave the station. This was the middle of the day and I was the only passenger left on the platform.

As a customer, this was a lousy customer experience.

In my business, I go out of my way to bend over backwards and provide excellent client service for my clients at all times, as my livelihood depends on it.

If I treated my clients with the disdain I experienced on that day, I would have no business left.

I know there has to be discipline on departure times etc, but there also needs to be much better client service.
 
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notadriver

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It was evening rush hour and I had just closed the doors and got interlock. Passenger then appeared and started pressing the button. They looked up towards the front the train and pointing at the door and showing expressive hand gestures. They then pressed the button repeatedly again. What would you have done ?
 

notadriver

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Last year at St Pancras I was delayed by 20 seconds at the barrier not initially accepting my valid ticket. I ran to the end coach of my train to see the EMT Guard locking the central locking seconds before my hand touched the door handle.

Through the open HST window, she said "too late I've locked the doors" so I had a lengthy wait for my next train.

I was really angry. Either she hadn't made any attempt to look down the platform before she locked the doors, or she did it deliberately.

30 seconds later I was still standing on the platform as my train started to leave the station.

As a customer, this was a lousy customer experience.

In my business, I go out of my way to bend over backwards and provide excellent client service for my clients at all times, as my livelihood depends on it.

If I treated my clients with the disdain I experienced on that day, I would have no business left.

I know there has to be discipline on departure times etc, but there also needs to be much better client service.

You don't think you were cutting it too fine and should have got there earlier ? :roll::roll:
 

dk1

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On a 15X I sometimes let a late arrival in through the butterfly, but usually depends what mood I'm in. It's very rare these days for the guard to 'give you one' once doors are closed & dispatch started.
 

scott118

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Last year at St Pancras I was delayed by 20 seconds at the barrier not initially accepting my valid ticket. I ran to the end coach of my train to see the EMT Guard locking the central locking seconds before my hand touched the door handle.

Through the open HST window, she said "too late I've locked the doors" so I had a lengthy wait for my next train.

I was really angry. Either she hadn't made any attempt to look down the platform before she locked the doors, or she did it deliberately.

30 seconds later I was still standing on the platform as my train started to leave the station. This was the middle of the day and I was the only passenger left on the platform.

As a customer, this was a lousy customer experience.

In my business, I go out of my way to bend over backwards and provide excellent client service for my clients at all times, as my livelihood depends on it.

If I treated my clients with the disdain I experienced on that day, I would have no business left.

I know there has to be discipline on departure times etc, but there also needs to be much better client service.

bet you'd be early at the airport....
 

jopsuk

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If you'd been held up by 20 seconds at the barrier, but as you got to the train the guard was already on board with her own door locked, then presumably she'd already blown her whistle before you even reached the barrier?
 

TheEdge

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Last year at St Pancras I was delayed by 20 seconds at the barrier not initially accepting my valid ticket. I ran to the end coach of my train to see the EMT Guard locking the central locking seconds before my hand touched the door handle.

Through the open HST window, she said "too late I've locked the doors" so I had a lengthy wait for my next train.

Slam door stock has to be like that. If they are locked then they have all been checked secure by the guard and dispatchers. If they then all get unlocked then the whole process needs to be started again so add a good minute or two to departure. The other possibility is by the time you got there she had already passed the ready to start signal to the driver. By that point the train has departed and can only be stopped for an emergency, emergency meaning danger to life, not a late runner.

I was really angry. Either she hadn't made any attempt to look down the platform before she locked the doors, or she did it deliberately.

Could have been either. Or she simply didn't spot you as she was concentrating on dispatch. I've left people behind because they've appeared at the last moment and by that point I'm concentrating on the doors and dispatch. I've also reopened doors or let people in through the local door.

30 seconds later I was still standing on the platform as my train started to leave the station. This was the middle of the day and I was the only passenger left on the platform.

Which is often how long it takes to go from ready to start to moving. So, like I said earlier, to re-open the doors, start again and re-dispatch could very easily add several minutes to the departure. From a London terminal that will snowball quickly.

As a customer, this was a lousy customer experience.

In my business, I go out of my way to bend over backwards and provide excellent client service for my clients at all times, as my livelihood depends on it.

If I treated my clients with the disdain I experienced on that day, I would have no business left.

I know there has to be discipline on departure times etc, but there also needs to be much better client service.

The eternal question. We could wait for every late runner at every station and provide the ultimate customer service but in that case running on time would never happen. Or we could leave everyone and always depart on time. A balance has to be struck, sometimes that balance includes strict departures.
 

Iskra

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Last year at St Pancras I was delayed by 20 seconds at the barrier not initially accepting my valid ticket. I ran to the end coach of my train to see the EMT Guard locking the central locking seconds before my hand touched the door handle.

Through the open HST window, she said "too late I've locked the doors" so I had a lengthy wait for my next train.

I was really angry. Either she hadn't made any attempt to look down the platform before she locked the doors, or she did it deliberately.

30 seconds later I was still standing on the platform as my train started to leave the station. This was the middle of the day and I was the only passenger left on the platform.

As a customer, this was a lousy customer experience.

In my business, I go out of my way to bend over backwards and provide excellent client service for my clients at all times, as my livelihood depends on it.

If I treated my clients with the disdain I experienced on that day, I would have no business left.

I know there has to be discipline on departure times etc, but there also needs to be much better client service.

You only have yourself to blame, levels of customer service don't come into it.

It's well publicised at all major stations that doors close up to 60 seconds before departure, thus 20 seconds is inconsequential. East Midlands trains website says as much http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/travelling-with-us/A-little-helpful-advice/
 

trainophile

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Is it at the guard's discretion, or do they have rules to adhere to about this?

Merseyrail guards on the Wirral Line are quite good at reopening the doors as someone appears, having run down the escalator at Moorfields. There is one minute between the Southport to Hunts Cross arrival and the Chester departure, and many young, fit folk think they will make a dash and hope they can jump on in time. I have been allowed through a reopened door on a couple of occasions, and didn't know whether to thank the guard when he came through, or not mention it in case he had broken the rules.

I've worked out now that if there are already people coming up the escalator I'm too late, but occasionally I can just make it if the train is running a minute or two late, and I certainly don't fall into the "young, fit" category!
 

BestWestern

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It is, generally, discretionary. Delay minutes and performance comes into it, as does safety.

Slam door stock is a special case for a number of reasons; firstly because the dispatch procedure is far more involved than power doors, with the need to check that each individual door is properly closed and secure; secondly because a late runner will not just stand there pressing a button but will physically pull the door, which can lead to an insecure door; and thirdly because the process of actually moving off takes considerably longer than it does on most power door stock. The result is that people approach a train, Guard with head out of the window, attempt to open the doors and then spend a few moments shouting the odds at the Guard, who they think could and should have 'just opened the door and let them on'. A regular occurrence. There has to be a 'cut off point', where you decide that you are going, which sometimes means that runners will be left behind. If you wait for one to reach the train and let them on, there is a good chance there will be another one by then making good progress towards you, and so the whole scenario repeats itself.
 

ExRes

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Last year at St Pancras I was delayed by 20 seconds at the barrier not initially accepting my valid ticket. I ran to the end coach of my train to see the EMT Guard locking the central locking seconds before my hand touched the door handle.

Through the open HST window, she said "too late I've locked the doors" so I had a lengthy wait for my next train.

I was really angry. Either she hadn't made any attempt to look down the platform before she locked the doors, or she did it deliberately.

30 seconds later I was still standing on the platform as my train started to leave the station. This was the middle of the day and I was the only passenger left on the platform.

As a customer, this was a lousy customer experience.

In my business, I go out of my way to bend over backwards and provide excellent client service for my clients at all times, as my livelihood depends on it.

If I treated my clients with the disdain I experienced on that day, I would have no business left.

I know there has to be discipline on departure times etc, but there also needs to be much better client service.

Unless it's been changed, which I don't believe for one second, St Pancras has an RA system which, if the platform staff had activated it, means that the driver would be taking power to leave the station, the TM has no say in the actual train despatch and would not be able to let you board even if you were only 1 second late, I'll assume that you wouldn't expect the TM to drop the tap just for you, would you?
 

Matt Taylor

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I rarely reopen the doors except in an emergency, if the passenger makes an effort I'm happy to let them in my local door but there are mitigating circumstances such as whether we have some waiting time at the next station, is the station staffed, is it the last train of the day and is the person vulnerable. Like it or not we do have to consider lone females as a vulnerable group, and we do have a duty of care to anyone on the railway-specifically platforms in this instance.
 
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