Reopening doors

[Iskra]

In any other business an attitude of blaming the customer would be really unhealthy from a customer service point of view.

You need to take responsibility for your own actions or inactions, rather than blame the industry.

Customers are not infallible.

And, I think this incident was good customer service for the several hundred passengers on-board the train. Why should their connections be jeopardised because you couldn't turn up in good time?

 

[island]

And, I think this incident was good customer service for the several hundred passengers on-board the train. Why should their connections be jeopardised because you couldn't turn up in good time?

Precisely.

 

[gsnedders]

But in reality, who is to blame? And who do we all accept is to blame for us missing our trains? It's not a bone of contention. Miss train: Own fault.

I don't think it's quite fair to simplify it that much—I've plenty of times been running for the last suburban train home when I'm off a late running intercity train. That's hardly the customer's fault. Equally, when it's the last train, it can be hard to find any staff around the station to organise onwards travel…

 

[trainophile]

I don't think it's quite fair to simplify it that much—I've plenty of times been running for the last suburban train home when I'm off a late running intercity train. That's hardly the customer's fault. Equally, when it's the last train, it can be hard to find any staff around the station to organise onwards travel…

I agree. Especially at stations that have perhaps a less than generous minimum connection time and a large platform spread. If an inbound train is even marginally behind schedule at e.g. Man Picc, Birmingham New Street or York, then it could be a case of running like the clappers to make your connection, and would be beyond annoying to have the doors shut in your face.

It's all very well saying "but you would be allowed to get the next service" but that often means waiting around for an hour, or even missing subsequent connections.

To the guard who mentioned the lack of thanks, it could be because we are never quite sure whether he is allowed to do what he did, and don't want to draw attention to it and perhaps get him into trouble. Believe me, we ARE grateful!

 

[MrPIC]

I'll only re-open the doors for safety, but generally not. If I'm running late I will almost never re-release, as if you wouldn't have been there to catch me on time, tough luk if you're late for me being late!

 

[455driver]

To the guard who mentioned the lack of thanks, it could be because we are never quite sure whether he is allowed to do what he did, and don't want to draw attention to it and perhaps get him into trouble. Believe me, we ARE grateful!

Going up to the guard afterwards and just saying "thank you" or "thanks for that" is hardly going to get them in trouble is it. :roll:

 

[ComUtoR]

To the guard who mentioned the lack of thanks, it could be because we are never quite sure whether he is allowed to do what he did, and don't want to draw attention to it and perhaps get him into trouble. Believe me, we ARE grateful!

If I was to do something that was bending the rules, I must be willing to accept the consequences of that. There are potentially serious consequences to reopening the doors and those must be your first priority. I'm happy to get pulled up for causing a delay but the risk of an offside door release means that if I'm in the chair almost taking power then a second release isn't going to happen.

 

[trainophile]

Going up to the guard afterwards and just saying "thank you" or "thanks for that" is hardly going to get them in trouble is it. :roll:

I am someone who has thanked a guard for letting me on as a late "runner" (through no fault of my own), but on the quiet when he comes through the carriage.

I'm not sure whether reopening would even happen on an 11-coach Pendolino, but it could be tricky finding the guard to thank in that situation - a bit different on a 2-coach Northern Pacer.

No need for the :roll: was there?

 

[bb21]

What happened? Don't leave us in suspense! Did you get fired for abusing a customer? We need to know!

I am still waiting.

To the guard who mentioned the lack of thanks, it could be because we are never quite sure whether he is allowed to do what he did, and don't want to draw attention to it and perhaps get him into trouble. Believe me, we ARE grateful!

In situations where I wish to express my gratitude remotely, I tend to nod at the guard and give him a thumbs up. That would normally suffice. If I felt more is warranted, I would say something if I walk past him/her when alighting, or when he/she comes around checking tickets.

 

[philthetube]

I've even seen doors reopened on LU for a runner! That really impressed me

I would re-open on occasions on the MET, especially early morning or late night when trains are less frequent, it depends on time and also on the behaviour of the passenger when they arrive late when they reach the platform, I am much more likley to re-open for a passenger who tries the door button than accepts they have missed the train than one who leans on the doors or attempts to push them open.

It is a really nice feeling to get a wave of thanks after letting someone board.

 

[grumblingalong]

One thumbs up from a bloke I spotted running for my train at Stowmarket earlier, left 30 seconds late, return leg of the same train lady runs up just after giving two to driver from Newmarket, 2 hours to the next service so no question stopped process and let her on, she then made her hospital appointment, little bit of decency goes a long way in society. Never open up once movement has started or if they're more than a minute late though.

 

[185143]

If I was a guard/DOO driver, I would probably let people on if it was reasonable and safe to do so. On LU, no chance would I do it! Ive had a suburban train in Greater Manchester take power, slam on and let someone on the local door, which I would object to doing (next train was in 25 minutes). Also, in Strathclyde one time I was running down the stairs, the DOO driver shut the doors, saw me and reopened. Next train was 10 minutes later, so probably wouldn't have done that myself.

Discuss:
On a tram system sat at a station in the city centre. There was a delay, I alighted and wandered up to the drivers window, which was open to find out when he was likely to leave.

The reply?
'Now, see ya!' And took power!

 

[theironroad]

One thumbs up from a bloke I spotted running for my train at Stowmarket earlier, left 30 seconds late, return leg of the same train lady runs up just after giving two to driver from Newmarket, 2 hours to the next service so no question stopped process and let her on, she then made her hospital appointment, little bit of decency goes a long way in society. Never open up once movement has started or if they're more than a minute late though.

Sounds reasonable and engenders a lot of good will in that case.

I do wonder if some of the people on here have ever been late for a train, due to life getting in the way, delays en route etc or are they all perfect in their life so never be late to anything.....

Sure if someone is ambling along and making no effort to hurry up, that's onething, but when I see guards close doors on people who are running for the train and making the effort, then a few seconds isn't going to matter and ......no it doesn't happen at every stop every day to make the train so late to cause a significant delay.

However, if the guard has given the driver 2-2, then no unless an emergency.

Try to walk in other people's shoes once in a while....

 

[axlecounter]

Sounds reasonable and engenders a lot of good will in that case.

I do wonder if some of the people on here have ever been late for a train, due to life getting in the way, delays en route etc or are they all perfect in their life so never be late to anything.....

Sure if someone is ambling along and making no effort to hurry up, that's onething, but when I see guards close doors on people who are running for the train and making the effort, then a few seconds isn't going to matter and ......no it doesn't happen at every stop every day to make the train so late to cause a significant delay.

However, if the guard has given the driver 2-2, then no unless an emergency.

Try to walk in other people's shoes once in a while....

Yes, that's a good reason to reopen the doors for me. Been a train user for many years before becoming a driver and always been a last-minute/second kind of passenger...so I'd feel guilty of not letting someone in, when many drivers did that for me many times.

Even when the train is already late, I sometimes reopen if someone comes just seconds after doors closing. But I work on a network where minutes count, but seconds usually don't

 

[AndrewE]

Even when the train is already late, I sometimes reopen if someone comes just seconds after doors closing. But I work on a network where minutes count, but seconds usually don't

Given your location that's an interesting comment! What was conspicuously different about train travel in Switzerland 30 yrs ago was the station clocks with the sweep seconds hand.

I have read that rail networks tend to have a punctiality/performance of (say) 10 or 20 times the time interval used in planning and operating. Our WTTs used to only have half-minute "resolution" (and platform clocks didn't necessarily display seconds) and you were lucky if trains ran within 5 minutes of right time. In Sitzerland the sweep second hand focussed everyone's mind on the actual departure time and they were famously punctual.


I suppose it may be that you work in an area with lots of time spent waiting at stations to cross other trains on single lines...
Regards
A

 

[dk1]

When those appear to make on effort to hurry I find clapping my hands & saying "chop-chop" does the trick. Makes them pick their feet up & makes them waspy at the same time. Either way it's made them think & made me feel better

 

[axlecounter]

Given your location that's an interesting comment! What was conspicuously different about train travel in Switzerland 30 yrs ago was the station clocks with the sweep seconds hand.

I have read that rail networks tend to have a punctiality/performance of (say) 10 or 20 times the time interval used in planning and operating. Our WTTs used to only have half-minute "resolution" (and platform clocks didn't necessarily display seconds) and you were lucky if trains ran within 5 minutes of right time. In Sitzerland the sweep second hand focussed everyone's mind on the actual departure time and they were famously punctual.


I suppose it may be that you work in an area with lots of time spent waiting at stations to cross other trains on single lines...
Regards
A

Yes, that's a reason. I said "network" but I meant more the area I work in. Another reason for this is having trains coming from Italy.
But I think that outside the main busy areas around big cities (Zurich, Geneva,...) we have many places where punctuality is not a matter of seconds.

That of course doesn't mean that we as drivers don't like to depart when the second hand crosses zero.

 

[Andyh82]

Are customers allowed to be let on at the local door, if the local door isn't usually for passenger use? Such as on 150s, 321s, 185s etc.

It's annoying when this happens on buses as well, when the bus you are on is 13 mins late on a 15 min frequency, and last minute people run for it, and one gets let on, then as they are paying, more and more keep appearing thinking it's the next bus, not knowing that the next bus is on time and waiting to come onto the stand.

 

[Parallel]

Are customers allowed to be let on at the local door, if the local door isn't usually for passenger use? Such as on 150s, 321s, 185s etc.

I know GWR often use the front door on their 150/1s (and other 150s) at local door only stations

 

[cjmillsnun]

In any other business an attitude of blaming the customer would be really unhealthy from a customer service point of view.

If you had turned up at the gate for a flight 20 seconds before departure do you think they would've let you on?

 

[najaB]

If you had turned up at the gate for a flight 20 seconds before departure do you think they would've let you on?

More so, if the load-sheet had been signed off and the door had been closed?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Should be up to the guards discretion.
A busy main line services can be far different to a local branch line, or an area with few services. Often time on those quieter lines /services can be made up, and probably a large number of passengers may be waiting at the junction station anyway.
I almost missed the last St Ives train one evening. It normally took 15 minutes to walk from the Sloop Inn to the train... but that occasion there was a pram race on in the main streets.
Looked at my watch at the car park entrance, and realized it had taken almost 20 minutes already. I sprinted across the car park to the train, the guard was laughing - said they saw I had my running shoes on & they had waited for me.

 

[455driver]

Are customers allowed to be let on at the local door, if the local door isn't usually for passenger use? Such as on 150s, 321s, 185s etc.

As the local doors say 'not for public use' on them what do you think?

 

[urbophile]

Is it at the guard's discretion, or do they have rules to adhere to about this?

Merseyrail guards on the Wirral Line are quite good at reopening the doors as someone appears, having run down the escalator at Moorfields. There is one minute between the Southport to Hunts Cross arrival and the Chester departure, and many young, fit folk think they will make a dash and hope they can jump on in time. I have been allowed through a reopened door on a couple of occasions, and didn't know whether to thank the guard when he came through, or not mention it in case he had broken the rules.

I've worked out now that if there are already people coming up the escalator I'm too late, but occasionally I can just make it if the train is running a minute or two late, and I certainly don't fall into the "young, fit" category!

I have had occasion to be grateful for Merseyrail's flexible attitude more than once, most recently last week as I arrived on the platform just as the doors were closing. The guard immediately re-opened them and when I thanked her she just said, 'I'm glad you didn't try to force them and cause an accident.' I know it was my fault, I'm an unpunctual so-and-so, but it seemed the natural thing for her to do and it didn't delay the train much. Actually they often arrive a minute early and depart a few seconds before time anyway, so it's only give and take.

 

[theironroad]

I've seen guards on Swt do full door re-opens or wait patiently by a local door on many occasions for a late runner.

Sometimes I've seen a latecomer, but once all doors closed and ready to start signal given to driver it's beyond too late unfortunately.

 

[island]

I know GWR often use the front door on their 150/1s (and other 150s) at local door only stations

I've been let on via the cab door on a 3000 once when the doors had been closed as I arrived but (presumably) before the RA was given.

 

[Sprinter153]

On two of the unit types I sign once I've closed the doors it isn't possible to reopen (without contacting the driver and requesting a re-release). This generally costs at least a minute, by the time I've contacted the driver, the doors have been released, the passenger has been shown how to press the open button and I've restarted the dispatch procedure. At my TOC a one minute station over-run for a reason attributable to the TM results in a TDA 'please explain' and too many result in a poor performance plan.

Unfortunately many colleagues let passengers in through the cab, which is a big no, which seems unfortunately to lead to the expectation of entitlement!

 

[Antman]

Jeees no, if you are late for your train deal with it, get the next one.

Jeez...........what if there isn't a next one?:cry:
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I've seen guards on Swt do full door re-opens or wait patiently by a local door on many occasions for a late runner.

Sometimes I've seen a latecomer, but once all doors closed and ready to start signal given to driver it's beyond too late unfortunately.

In my experience most drivers and guards are quite reasonable about it and will reopen the doors if practical to do so, obviously if there is a frequent service it's not practical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've been let on via the cab door on a 3000 once when the doors had been closed as I arrived but (presumably) before the RA was given.

Merseyrail used to do that as fairly normal practice, though in light of recent issues I imagine they are now much stricter.
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More so, if the load-sheet had been signed off and the door had been closed?

The difference between flights and trains is that for the former, a cut-off time is clearly advertised and printed on your boarding card (in easyJet's case, far more prominently than the pushback time), and flight boarding near enough never occurs in advance of that time so there is plenty of leeway.

With trains, only one time is advertised, and that is the departure time. Therefore, some confusion is probably understandable - though "30 seconds before" and "2 minutes before" is now much more prominent than it was, I personally think the public timetable should be changed so the time given at any given station is the end of the permissible boarding time, i.e. the doors close button is not pressed until the time ticks over to the specified minute.

 

[455driver]

Jeez...........what if there isn't a next one?:cry:

Jeez.........make sure you are there in time!
Personal responsibility and all that!

In my experience most drivers and guards are quite reasonable about it and will reopen the doors if practical to do so, obviously if there is a frequent service it's not practical.

That soon changes if we get any verbal abuse or not even a thanks!