Reopening doors

[bramling]

How long would you classify a turn up and go frequency?

My Merseyrail event the other day wasn't critical as they run every 15 minutes, but it would still have been annoying to miss it by about two seconds!

Annoying by all means, but missing a train isn't the end of the world.

From a driver's point of view it's a nuisance when someone rushes to get on at the last minute, although I (albeit grudgingly!) accept it's part of the job, although I have a big issue with those who get themselves caught in the doors an then have the nerve to make a complaint about it, as some do.

Regarding what constitutes a turn-up-and-go frequency, I'm not sure there's a definite answer, but I'd suggest anything under every 30 minutes for a start. With timetables now much more accessible than in the past, there's not much excuse for turning up at a station without having checked timings.

One station I use on a regular basis has a 3-min frequency during the day. This doesn't stop me getting knocked virtually every time I leave a train there by people coming down the stairs, seeing/hearing a train in the platform and making a mad dash, totally inconsiderate to anything or anyone in their path. It's always quietly satisfying when these individuals misjudge and end up running straight into a closed door, however this is quite dangerous both for themselves and others around them.

 

[rebmcr]

How long would you classify a turn up and go frequency?

Regarding what constitutes a turn-up-and-go frequency, I'm not sure there's a definite answer, but I'd suggest anything under every 30 minutes for a start.

TfL have modelled passenger behaviour and found that 15 minutes headway (4tph) is the bare minumum for it to begin to be treated as turn-up-and-go.

 

[ComUtoR]

TfL have modelled passenger behaviour and found that 15 minutes headway (4tph) is the bare minumum for it to begin to be treated as turn-up-and-go.

That's still very vague.

At my local station there are at least 10tph leaving London bound. Would you treat each destination separate ? As we are metro based there are plenty of alternative routes to the same destination.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I think a reasonable definition of the term turn up and go is the point at which passengers no longer bother to look at the timetable, but just arrive on the platform and look at the screen to see when a train will come. It's probably somewhere between a train every 15 and 10 minutes

 

[TheEdge]

I think a reasonable definition of the term turn up and go is the point at which passengers no longer bother to look at the timetable,

In my experience that covers pretty much any service then! Turn up at Norwich planning to go to London at 2350 and you will not meet much success!

It's probably somewhere between a train every 15 and 10 minutes

I'd agree with that. But, people will still run. Look at the tube, frequencies of minutes and people still run for them.

 

[gsnedders]

I'd agree with that. But, people will still run. Look at the tube, frequencies of minutes and people still run for them.

I think ultimately a lot of this comes down to the fact that there's no real incentive *not* to run. There's a very high outcome that you will either make the train or be unharmed as a consequence of running for it.

 

[mbreckers]

TfL have modelled passenger behaviour and found that 15 minutes headway (4tph) is the bare minumum for it to begin to be treated as turn-up-and-go.

4tph does not always mean 15 minutes.

For Example:

Glasgow Central - Ayr services run like this throughout the day:

xx00
xx04
xx30
xx34

Thats still a 26 minute wait if you miss the xx04 or xx34 service

 

[rebmcr]

4tph does not always mean 15 minutes.

I know, that's why it was only in brackets.

 

[mbreckers]

I know, that's why it was only in brackets.

your post didn't make that clear

 

[bramling]

I think ultimately a lot of this comes down to the fact that there's no real incentive *not* to run. There's a very high outcome that you will either make the train or be unharmed as a consequence of running for it.

Yes I think that's a fair summary.

Having said that, the number of complaints which come through where people have run for a train and got themselves caught in the doors, then claiming some form of injury, is not unsubstantial - although low relative to the number of passengers carried. No doubt many incidents or near misses also go unreported.

But it is rather annoying that one can't alight from a train and leave a platform at certain locations without having to dodge people running. Can't see much changing though - whilst TOCs may do things to discourage it, it's probably not good public relations to really clamp down on it.