Reporting ticket misuse

[Mathew S]

Imagine, purely hypothetically, that I had become aware of a group of people systematically misusing tickets (specifically, using the return portion of off peak return tickets more than once). If I was so minded, who would I report that to so that it could be looked into?

 

[najaB]

If I was so minded, who would I report that to so that it could be looked into?

I would contact the customer services department of the TOC concerned and leave it at that.

 

[30907]

Imagine, purely hypothetically, that I had become aware of a group of people systematically misusing tickets (specifically, using the return portion of off peak return tickets more than once). If I was so minded, who would I report that to so that it could be looked into?

BTP? As it would appear to be at the least a RoRA offence not a Byelaw one.

 

[najaB]

BTP? As it would appear to be at the least a RoRA offence not a Byelaw one.

I suppose, but BTP aren't best placed to detect ticket misuse, whereas the TOC likely has RPIs who can do a revenue sting.

 

[TurbostarFan]

NXEA (back in their day) used to have a text message hotline for this. However Greater Anglia (who succeeded NXEA) do not have one.

 

[robbeech]

If you are on a train then a quiet word with the guard usually works.

 

[Stigy]

Imagine, purely hypothetically, that I had become aware of a group of people systematically misusing tickets (specifically, using the return portion of off peak return tickets more than once). If I was so minded, who would I report that to so that it could be looked into?

It depends on what intel you have as to whether it’s worth reporting it at all. If you saw it once, for example, then it’s not reasonable to expect a TOC to put their resources in to catching those responsible, as there’s no evidence to suggest it’s an on-going issue. If it is on-going and you have timeframes and descriptions of offenders etc then I’d suggest reporting it to customer services as has been mentioned above. BTP wouldn’t pile any resources in to it unless it was of significant high value and if anything, would pass it back to the TOC to deal with.

 

[js1000]

You'd be amazed what fare evaders do to avoid paying. I've noticed quite a few repeat offenders in my time. Getting off the train to walk to the front of the train as it reverses back out, using an accessible lift to blatantly avoid ticket barriers etc.

I've never reported one on the point of principle that I feel apathy towards the TOCs existing general policy of fining the decent passengers, many of whom make innocent mistakes, with petty £20 penalty fares and the like.

If they got rid of RPIs standing on platforms doing absolutely nothing (mostly) all day and who apply little discretion then that would get me more on side and I would be far more compelled to report fare evaders. They should be spending the money they give in wages to RPIs on shopping repeat offenders with undercover staff.

 

[Stigy]

You'd be amazed what fare evaders do to avoid paying. I've noticed quite a few repeat offenders in my time. Getting off the train to walk to the front of the train as it reverses back out, using an accessible lift to blatantly avoid ticket barriers etc.

I've never reported one on the point of principle that I feel apathy towards the TOCs existing general policy of fining the decent passengers, many of whom make innocent mistakes, with petty £20 penalty fares and the like.

If they got rid of RPIs standing on platforms doing absolutely nothing (mostly) all day and who apply little discretion then that would get me more on side and I would be far more compelled to report fare evaders. They should be spending the money they give in wages to RPIs on shopping repeat offenders with undercover staff.

I see where you’re coming from, with the PF issues. If issued correctly, the Penalty Fare system is a good deterrent, and to be honest, it’s intention is for these notices to be issued to those who make mistakes. That’s the idea. Fare evaders shouldn’t be issued a PF, and should be reported for summons. My issue with this system is that staff use them as an easy way out sometimes, and fare evaders are issued them time and time again. I personally see the easiest, and certainly less confrontational way of dealing with fare evaders is to report them, because they’re mostly too stupid to realise that just because I’m not ‘fining’ them, doesn’t mean they’ve got away with it, and long-term, it’s probably going to cost them a lot more. The correct way to make a decision of this nature is to take name and address details, check them out and then make an objective decision. The problem is, PFs are still dished out like sweets to children. You only have to watch an episode of ‘Dom on the Spot’ and see how London Midland as it was then use the PF system to see that it’s fundamentally flawed, to the extent that TOCs themselves also don’t utilise them correctly.

Bearing in mind your views on how you believe it should work, how do you know TOCs don’t deal with repeat offenders? Most of the time you’ll not hear about it at all unless you work for the TOC concerned, in the relevant department.

 

[tom73]

Imagine, purely hypothetically, that I had become aware of a group of people systematically misusing tickets (specifically, using the return portion of off peak return tickets more than once). If I was so minded, who would I report that to so that it could be looked into?

I am totally baffled by this thread. Exactly how would you become aware? How could you possibly know it was "systematic". The only thing I can think of, hypothetically you understand, is that you are a part of the group but unhappy with what the group is allegedly doing. To use the return portion of an off-peak more than once, you have to be back at the point where the return journey begins in order to use t a second time.

 

[Mathew S]

I am totally baffled by this thread. Exactly how would you become aware? How could you possibly know it was "systematic". The only thing I can think of, hypothetically you understand, is that you are a part of the group but unhappy with what the group is allegedly doing. To use the return portion of an off-peak more than once, you have to be back at the point where the return journey begins in order to use t a second time.

I'm not sure what baffles you about it. It would be perfectly possible to hear about a group of people doing something such as I described. It might even, for example, be that one of them 'boasted' about doing it and saving money on (undeniably) expensive train journeys.

 

[najaB]

How could you possibly know it was "systematic". The only thing I can think of, hypothetically you understand, is that you are a part of the group but unhappy with what the group is allegedly doing.

People he works with. Guys down the pub. Friends from school. Fellow gym members...

 

[TurbostarFan]

You'd be amazed what fare evaders do to avoid paying. I've noticed quite a few repeat offenders in my time. Getting off the train to walk to the front of the train as it reverses back out, using an accessible lift to blatantly avoid ticket barriers etc.

I've never reported one on the point of principle that I feel apathy towards the TOCs existing general policy of fining the decent passengers, many of whom make innocent mistakes, with petty £20 penalty fares and the like.

If they got rid of RPIs standing on platforms doing absolutely nothing (mostly) all day and who apply little discretion then that would get me more on side and I would be far more compelled to report fare evaders. They should be spending the money they give in wages to RPIs on shopping repeat offenders with undercover staff.

I agree with you. In my opinion grassing people up for fare evasion is wrong.

 

[gray1404]

I too would never report anyone as a matter of principal. That is for the train company revenue protection staff to deal with. I also agree that for a one off case it would cost the TOC too much to look into it. Also, when people brag they do tend make it sound "ten times better" then it is. Let this one go. If they are really doing something bad, give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves and get caught in time.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Imagine, purely hypothetically, that I had become aware of a group of people systematically misusing tickets (specifically, using the return portion of off peak return tickets more than once). If I was so minded, who would I report that to so that it could be looked into?

In the mid 1980s this is just one of the 'fiddles' that spawned the growth of RPI grades in the then BR Network SouthEast business sector. It was the misuse of the then 'Standard Return Ticket', which had been valid for outward travel within 3 days and return within 3 months.

The habit was to re-use the return half if it had not been 'nipped' until either it was, or you got caught. (Many will recall the photograph of more than 100 uniformed RPIs on the steps at Waterloo station, still displayed in some RP offices no doubt). That ticket type quickly disappeared from sale.

An email ( or even an anonymous note ) specifying a very brief description of the offender/s, the usual train times & route and sent to the Customer Relations Department of the TOC concerned will get passed on to Revenue Protection. It would be a waste of effort sending this to BTP in a great many areas, but it will certainly get passed on to RP Teams by CR in almost every case. I have experience of such intelligence being followed up with considerable success.

 

[njamescouk]

I am totally baffled by this thread. Exactly how would you become aware? How could you possibly know it was "systematic". The only thing I can think of, hypothetically you understand, is that you are a part of the group but unhappy with what the group is allegedly doing. To use the return portion of an off-peak more than once, you have to be back at the point where the return journey begins in order to use t a second time.

put the ticket in the post to your confederate?

 

[Fare-Cop]

I am totally baffled by this thread. Exactly how would you become aware? How could you possibly know it was "systematic". The only thing I can think of, hypothetically you understand, is that you are a part of the group but unhappy with what the group is allegedly doing. To use the return portion of an off-peak more than once, you have to be back at the point where the return journey begins in order to use t a second time.

I'm a bit baffled by your post in truth

I am totally baffled by this thread. Exactly how would you become aware?

Well, your comments about being a disgruntled member of the group may be true, but quite simply, by observation and a little bit of 'digging around' might well give grounds for strong suspiscion, in just the same way that intelligence is built up by covert observation by plain clothed inspectors.

To use the return portion of an off-peak more than once, you have to be back at the point where the return journey begins in order to use t a second time.

Dependent on where the original ticketed journey is from and to, no you don't and njamescouk is also right with another option.

 

[MP33]

I cannot think of more than a handful of people over the years who are I have seen who I thought of as serial offenders. I think of when there was low unemployment, people moaning about layabouts. I think I have met less than 10 of those over the years also.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I am totally baffled by this thread. Exactly how would you become aware? How could you possibly know it was "systematic". The only thing I can think of, hypothetically you understand, is that you are a part of the group but unhappy with what the group is allegedly doing. To use the return portion of an off-peak more than once, you have to be back at the point where the return journey begins in order to use t a second time.

Matthew S is a journo, so it wouldn't be widely outside the scope of his job to potentially have come across something like this....

 

[EssexGonzo]

In my opinion grassing people up for fare evasion is wrong.

Why? They're costing us all money. They're breaking the law. They're sticking two fingers up at societal norms. They're getting something for free that you're not.

These are all acceptable to you, I assume.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

Why? They're costing us all money. They're breaking the law. They're sticking two fingers up at societal norms. They're getting something for free that you're not.

These are all acceptable to you, I assume.

I think the fact that MPotter used the word 'grassing' says everything. The next time I see someone being assaulted, graffiti being sprayed or a car running someone over and driving off, I must remember not to 'grass up' the perpetrator(s)

 

[TurbostarFan]

Why? They're costing us all money. They're breaking the law. They're sticking two fingers up at societal norms. They're getting something for free that you're not.

These are all acceptable to you, I assume.

I think the fact that MPotter used the word 'grassing' says everything. The next time I see someone being assaulted, graffiti being sprayed or a car running someone over and driving off, I must remember not to 'grass up' the perpetrator(s)

I think it is best that I refrain from further comment. If you wish to continue this discussion then you are more than welcome to either send me a PM or start a new thread.