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Reservation Coach * Seat ***

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142056

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Hi all,
Off to Bath again, going from Mancheter via Newport to save myself £65 rather than via Bristol. 8th of Feb, leaving Manchester Piccadilly at 0630. My tickets came through the post and For the Arriva Trains Wales part of the journey, I'm in Coach * and Seat ***.
What's going on?! Am on Advance tickets so I know I have to have a reservation but why would they not actually allocate a seat for me? Can I actually reserve a seat nearer the time?
And just out of curiosity, what stock will it be? (I'm praying they don't have a 150 on since it's early)

Thanks in advance!
 
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AlterEgo

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No, you're on an unreservable service so there won't be a seat allocated, nor can you reserve one nearer the time. This is quite common with regional operators.
 

swt_passenger

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...For the Arriva Trains Wales part of the journey, I'm in Coach * and Seat ***.
What's going on?! Am on Advance tickets so I know I have to have a reservation but why would they not actually allocate a seat for me? Can I actually reserve a seat nearer the time?

It is a train only reservation. You must use that train, but they don't put reservations out. Quite common if not travelling with a long distance TOC.
 

ValleyLines142

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I've had this before, it seems to be a new thing that has occurred. I did a Cardiff-Manchester journey last year and had a reservation, then I made the journey in July and about three weeks ago and had no reservation.

Manchester services are booked for a 175.
 

Greenback

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If I understand correctly, ATW do not provide individual seat reservations for Advance tickets booked online. They will issue seat reservatiosn for Advances booked at the station, or if requested for those passengers with walk up tickets.
 

142056

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Ahh, thanks for that. Never come across it before, always had a seat booked.
And I hope it's a 175, they are fairly nice units. Last time I was down that way the service back to Manchester (a good few years ago) was a 158 coupled to a 150. I'm sure you can guess which coach I sat in!
 

headshot119

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No, you're on an unreservable service so there won't be a seat allocated, nor can you reserve one nearer the time. This is quite common with regional operators.

I think he can reserve a seat closer to the time, I've certainly done it between Wrexham General and Newport on several occasions on advance tickets, even after a Coach * Seat ** reservation was provided to me.

Ahh, thanks for that. Never come across it before, always had a seat booked.
And I hope it's a 175, they are fairly nice units. Last time I was down that way the service back to Manchester (a good few years ago) was a 158 coupled to a 150. I'm sure you can guess which coach I sat in!

The 150? ;)
 

ValleyLines142

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Ahh, thanks for that. Never come across it before, always had a seat booked.
And I hope it's a 175, they are fairly nice units. Last time I was down that way the service back to Manchester (a good few years ago) was a 158 coupled to a 150. I'm sure you can guess which coach I sat in!

I'd say the chances of it being a 175 are about 95%, don't think a Sprinter will turn up.
 

TEW

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Southern, SWT and Chiltern, I think all do this too

FGW do on trains booked to be operated by Turbos and 150s/153s as well. Mainly London-Oxford services and Penzance-Plymouth services.
 

John @ home

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This page: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/booking_horizons.html gives details of "semi-reservable trains": the ones that offer quota-controlled advances but no actual seat reservation.
But it does not deal with the particular circumstances here.

We note from the link that Chiltern, LM, Southern and SWT "do not offer seat reservations but have quota controlled advance purchase products". But the OP is travelling on a reservable ATW train and they choose make reserved seats available online for flexible tickets but not for their Advance tickets.

This happened to me recently when I had a reserved seat for my flexible ATW Club 55 ticket but my younger travelling companion on an Advance ticket bought in the same transaction had "Coach * Seat *** ".

It's good to learn that seat reservations for these busy services may be obtained in person at a railway station. I may do that in future.

If ATW really need to operate such a system, they should make the details much more readily available.
 

headshot119

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I don't understand why ATW do it though, as if your an an advance ticket surely you are much more likely to turn up for that train you are booked onto.
 

Welshman

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Perhaps its to avoid staff having to put the reserved tickets out on services with tight turn-round times, eg the Chester-Crewe shuttle, which turns round in 5-10 minutes at either end.

I wonder what would happen if you had such a ticket allocating you to a particular train but no specific seat reserved, and on the day there was a rush of turn-up and go passengers, [perhaps the set was short-formed into the bargain], and it was impossible to board, let alone find a seat?

I can't see them asking someone to get-off, nor would I like to be the one asked. So would they endorse your ticket for another service?
 

F Great Eastern

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It happens a lot on the special offer tickets, such as the 'PROMO ADVANCE SINGLE' tickets that are being offered on NXEA now, the seats don't come with reservation even on intercity services on the promo tickets on NXEA.
 

4SRKT

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It's possibly to avoid the slightly absurd situation where someone on a cheap advance ticket is guaranteed a seat but someone paying full fare isn't. If you reserve the train only then everyone has an equal chance, which is much more sensible, especially for ATW whose mission seems to be to provide not quite enough seats on every service. Personally I like being able to sit anywhere rather than enter the lottery of being stuck next to a pillar or some sweating, overweight oaf. Even better on the WAG-Ex so you can always get as close to the front as you can.
 

island

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It's possibly to avoid the slightly absurd situation where someone on a cheap advance ticket is guaranteed a seat but someone paying full fare isn't. If you reserve the train only then everyone has an equal chance, which is much more sensible, especially for ATW whose mission seems to be to provide not quite enough seats on every service. Personally I like being able to sit anywhere rather than enter the lottery of being stuck next to a pillar or some sweating, overweight oaf. Even better on the WAG-Ex so you can always get as close to the front as you can.

No it's not. That would be too intelligent, among other reasons!
 

317666

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I had an advance from Birmingham Intl to Fairbourne last year, which has Coach * Seat ***, yet other people on the same train had proper reservations. Although, there were no reservation tickets on the seats themselves.
 

Bungle73

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It's possibly to avoid the slightly absurd situation where someone on a cheap advance ticket is guaranteed a seat but someone paying full fare isn't.

Oh, not this old chestnut. :roll:
 

ValleyLines142

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I think it's really bad because say you leave on the 1750 Cardiff-Manchester, some people could be taking up seats if they are only going to Newport or Cwmbran but then people who are travelling to Hereford or beyond have to stand and fight around for seats on a long-distance journey. Not sure why it changed to be honest, but I'd be absolutely screwing if I had to stand to Manchester or somewhere slightly further afield from Cardiff!!
 

455driver

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So when you see somebody get off at Newport you sit in the seat they vacated.
 

ValleyLines142

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So when you see somebody get off at Newport you sit in the seat they vacated.

And what if there's a group of 3 or 4? They'd be scattered all over the train if there were free seats and they wanted to sit down. It's so stupid; it really, really annoys me actually. I had to arrive at Piccadilly an hour early on 30th December to ensure I got a decent seat where my parents were with me on the 2030 to Cardiff. Does anybody know why they've done this?
 

John @ home

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Does anybody know why they've done this?
This question was asked by headshot119 in post #13 and Welshman and 4SRKT have made intelligent guesses of possible reasons.

But the ATW site appears to have nothing to say on the matter and there seems little point in more and more of us adding our own guesses.

The value of this thread for me is that we have learned from headshot119 in post #7 that seat reservations for these services may be obtained at a railway station even after a "Coach * Seat **" reservation has been issued. I am likely to make use of that discovery.
 

AlterEgo

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The value of this thread for me is that we have learned from headshot119 in post #7 that seat reservations for these services may be obtained at a railway station even after a "Coach * Seat **" reservation has been issued. I am likely to make use of that discovery.

It does seem though from Greenback's advice that reserving a seat at a later time is only possible on walk-up tickets, and that you can only get a seat reservation on an Advance ticket if you book it at the station.
 

John @ home

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It does seem though from Greenback's advice that reserving a seat at a later time is only possible on walk-up tickets, and that you can only get a seat reservation on an Advance ticket if you book it at the station.
Perhaps Greenback could clarify whether his experience has been that booking the original ticket at the station is necessary for obtaining a seat reservation at the station to associate with an ATW Advance ticket. The charge mentioned in Advance Fares FAQs Q&A 12 should not apply here because there was no opportunity to detail the seat preferences when making the booking.
The Manual -> Ticket Validities -> Advance fares - Frequently Asked Questions

Frequently Asked Questions about changes and refunds to Advance fares.

Q12 - A passenger has an Advance ticket but would like to change their seat allocation. Are they able to do this at the station in advance?

A: Yes, but this counts as a change as it takes retail time and therefore incurs a £10 fee per single ticket (some TOCs e.g. Virgin Trains may choose to waive this and will inform you). Seat preferences should be detailed when making the booking, not later. The ‘Conditions’ above shows that the ticket is only valid in the seat shown and this is the strict message to get across. However, tell the passenger that on-train staff may allow them to move if space allows.
 

harz99

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I don't understand why ATW do it though, as if your an an advance ticket surely you are much more likely to turn up for that train you are booked onto.

Although I'm not 100% sure, I think it's more to do with unit availability determining the number of coaches available in the first place.

I often travel Wolverhampton-Porthmadog and although using staff travel find I cannot get reservations on certain services until just a couple of weeks before the date of travel.
 

Olympian

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On WAG Express you still reserve a specific seat in 1st Class (Coach I) for both walk-up and advance tickets when booking online, but only for walk-up tickets in standard.
 

Bungle73

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Why is this an 'old chestnut'? Please don't trot out the pedantic line that technically you're buying a journey and not a seat.

Because anyone can reserve a seat. Some people can be bothered and some can't

And why price of ticket should be the only thing considered as to who is entitled to a seat when there are many other factors involved I have no idea.
 
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