reserving forward-facing seats on trains that reverse en-route

[oddiesjack]

This is something I have asked Arriva Train Wales about, but they are unable to give me an answer:

I have booked an advance single Stockport-Machynlleth, and chosen forward-facing as a preference.
Obviously, I change at Shrewsbury for a Birmingham-Aberystwyth service, which reverses at Shrewsbury. So, is a forward-facing seat number determined at the start of the train's journey, or determined by where I join the train?

 

[Phil from Mon]

On Holyhead to Cardiff services, which reverse at Chester, forward facing is usually forward facing from Holyhead, and the same when coming up from Cardiff. There is often a lot confusion among passengers boarding in the post-Chester part of the journey

 

[Haywain]

I don't know the answer but I guess you'll find out when you on the train. Perhaps you could let us know.

 

[krus_aragon]

On Holyhead to Cardiff services, which reverse at Chester, forward facing is usually forward facing from Holyhead, and the same when coming up from Cardiff. There is often a lot confusion among passengers boarding in the post-Chester part of the journey

This would be the simple explanation, namely that "forward" and "rear" reflect the way the train is facing at the beginning of its journey, which is when the guard will be walking thorugh the train placing reservation coupons on seats. (It would be the case at table seats where facing seats have the same number, but wouldn't neccesarily hold true for airline seating.)

 

[Ianno87]

This would be the simple explanation, namely that "forward" and "rear" reflect the way the train is facing at the beginning of its journey, which is when the guard will be walking thorugh the train placing reservation coupons on seats. (It would be the case at table seats where facing seats have the same number, but wouldn't neccesarily hold true for airline seating.)

Is there actually any stock on the network that have facing seats with the same number any more?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Is there actually any stock on the network that have facing seats with the same number any more?

I have it on good authority that Caledonian Sleeper mark 2 seated sleeper stock, and certain Scotrail stock, uses the same seat number for facing seats.

 

[krus_aragon]

Is there actually any stock on the network that have facing seats with the same number any more?

175s do. I can't remember off-hand if Welsh 158s still do since their refurbishment. (Unfortunately that's the stock that's relevant to the OP.)

 

[AM9]

This does raise the issue of with the few people who have problems travelling backwards.If somebody sits in a rearward facing seat just before the reversing point there may be no other forward facing seats available. It's fine if there are two travelling together if only one has the problem because they cam swap.
On a recent trip from Paddington to St Erth, the HST set had a coach which was all airline seating facing forward. By chance it seems that the same set was used a week later for my return journey but the whole set was reversed meaning that the seats were all facing forward again.

 

[krus_aragon]

This does raise the issue of with the few people who have problems travelling backwards.If somebody sits in a rearward facing seat just before the reversing point there may be no other forward facing seats available. It's fine if there are two travelling together if only one has the problem because they cam swap.
On a recent trip from Paddington to St Erth, the HST set had a coach which was all airline seating facing forward. By chance it seems that the same set was used a week later for my return journey but the whole set was reversed meaning that the seats were all facing forward again.

My experience with GWR HSTs (the high density layout used on South Wales services) is that they have two tables near the centre of the carriage, and then airline seating "backing" out from the centre to either end. The net result of this is that when you enter from the carriage end all the airline seats nearby face away from you, but the ones at the far end of the carriage (which one won't immediately notice) are facing toward you.

 

[alistairlees]

I have it on good authority that Caledonian Sleeper mark 2 seated sleeper stock, and certain Scotrail stock, uses the same seat number for facing seats.

This would be poor authority then, as the Caledonian Sleeper seated coaches don't have identically numbered seats. Seats are numbered 2A, 2B, 2C across the coach, up to 11A, 11B and 11C. There is also 1A. 31 seats in total. I don't know about ScotRail stuff though.

 

[alistairlees]

Is there actually any stock on the network that have facing seats with the same number any more?

Yes, Hull Trains 180s.

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes, Hull Trains 180s.

Really?
The GWR 180s had separate numbers AFAIK

 

[MotCO]

Yes, Hull Trains 180s.

When they run

 

[westv]

Really?
The GWR 180s had separate numbers AFAIK

Yes.
Also the GWR set that Hull Trains sometimes used had the same numbers.

 

[AM9]

My experience with GWR HSTs (the high density layout used on South Wales services) is that they have two tables near the centre of the carriage, and then airline seating "backing" out from the centre to either end. The net result of this is that when you enter from the carriage end all the airline seats nearby face away from you, but the ones at the far end of the carriage (which one won't immediately notice) are facing toward you.

No, some of the std class coaches were 'high density' layout, including the one that we travelled in (coach B on the UP trip). The coach next to that (C) had a wheelchair space and one table at the front then solid airline seating all the way to the other end. I know that because I walked through it to the bar. The last two times that I went to the south-west, the trains were made up of low density and high density layout coaches. The south-west services should be operated with low density stock with adequate luggage capacity.
At least that won't be able to get the layout wrong on the 80x sets.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Last year I very carefully booked a forward facing seat on the Naples-Sicily train, making sure I had a good window seat on the west side so I had a sea view.
It should have been 8 hours or so of splendid sea and coastal views from Naples all the way to Catania.
The Trenitalia booking engine helpfully had a seat map with direction of travel marked.
But I forgot that the train (from Rome) reversed at Napoli Centrale, so my "perfect" seat became an nearside mountain-facing backwards seat!
I was eventually able to claim my desired seat at Villa San Giovanni, where the train is shunted onto a ferry for the crossing to Messina in Sicily.
But the ship performs a gentle half-circle turn during the crossing, so I was still in a duff seat on arrival in Sicily!

The moral is, always know where your train starts, and reverses, and plan from there.
Chester is a problem station with reversals to/from Shrewsbury (except when trains are sent via Crewe).
Norwich-Liverpool is another problematic service (reversing at Sheffield).
Cardiff-Portsmouth is another (reversing at Bristol TM).
XC can be difficult too, with some trains reversing at New St but others running via Camp Hill without reversal.

 

[ExpressTrain]

175s do. I can't remember off-hand if Welsh 158s still do since their refurbishment. (Unfortunately that's the stock that's relevant to the OP.)

Yes the seats facing each other on Arriva's 158s have the same number.

In answer to the OP, the forwards/backwards seats are determined from where the train starts in my experience. I've reserved seats on many journeys from Shrewsbury to Birmingham where the train comes in from Aberystwyth and changes direction, each time where I requested a forward facing seat, I ended up sitting backwards!

 

[Kite159]

XC can be difficult too, with some trains reversing at New St but others running via Camp Hill without reversal.

And the Reading reversal for those services from Southampton

 

[cactustwirly]

RTT tells you where the trains reverse, in simple mode

 

[MikeWh]

Did anyone ever come up with a train with more reversals than the 4 undertaken by Basingstoke to Corfe Castle via Yeovil Junction, Pen Mill, Weymouth and Wareham?

 

[yorkie]

My understanding is that it relates to the orientation of the train from its origin.

So a train that reverses once en-route would be incorrectly labelled, from the point of view of any joining passenger, from the reverse point onwards.

A train that reverses twice would correct itself.

This would be poor authority then, as the Caledonian Sleeper seated coaches don't have identically numbered seats. Seats are numbered 2A, 2B, 2C across the coach, up to 11A, 11B and 11C. There is also 1A. 31 seats in total. I don't know about ScotRail stuff though.

That 'authority' was partly me as I was asked on Friday evening if they were numbered forward and back and initially answered 'yes' as I remember the seats being numbered that way when I travelled in August, but within seconds I realised that this was only the case because their spare coach had been used and immediately corrected myself to say they were in rows with a, b and c lettering. So my correction must have somehow not made it into the final post!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

So my correction must have somehow not made it into the final post!

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I think we were sat several rows apart, communicating via intermediate people, when this happened. Easy enough for a "broken telephone" incident to happen!

 

[Wallsendmag]

It was always from the origin but some things do change over time.