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Retaining Tickets for Expense Claim Purposes

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tom899

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I am doing jury service imminently, and will be travelling there by rail. You are required to retain ticket stubs for expense claim purposes. Stations at both ends of the line, though, have "ticket-gobbling" barriers; and there are rarely staff around to assist.

Is there a way I can navigate these while retaining the stubs?

(I will be buying regular "pairs" of day return tickets from the counter or machines.)
 
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JonathanH

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I am doing jury service imminently, and will be travelling there by rail. You are required to retain ticket stubs for expense claim purposes. Stations at both ends of the line, though, have "ticket-gobbling" barriers; and there are rarely staff around to assist.

Is there a way I can navigate these while retaining the stubs?

(I will be buying regular "pairs" of day return tickets from the counter or machines.)
Can you not just get a receipt with the tickets or take a picture of them? The people administering the claim will probably have a reasonable idea of the relevant train fares.
 

Bletchleyite

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I am doing jury service imminently, and will be travelling there by rail. You are required to retain ticket stubs for expense claim purposes. Stations at both ends of the line, though, have "ticket-gobbling" barriers; and there are rarely staff around to assist.

There will be staff around to assist because this is a legal requirement when barriers are closed, though you may need to use an intercom.
 

EssexGonzo

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Don’t the machines automatically spit put a 3rd “ticket” as a receipt, or a paper one? Or have the option?
 

Hadders

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Just ask the staff to be let through manually. It's never, ever been a problem when I've asked to do this.
 

DanNCL

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I regularly have to keep tickets for expenses claims - the only station I've ever had a problem with it is Blackpool North, and even there I was eventually let through the barriers with my ticket after some arguing. Show your ticket to the staff at the gates instead of inserting it, 99.9% of the time there won't be any issues.
 

Failed Unit

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My employer only wants a photo. Paper is dead to them. I just need to remember to take it during the journey.
 

3rd rail land

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Whenever I use a TVM I am always able to obtain a receipt. That way when I need to include a receipt with expenses I am able to use this and not have to worry about gatelines retaining my ticket.
I believe ticket office staff give a receipt with the tickets by default, at least they have whenever I've used a counter, although I nearly always use a TVM or e-tickets.

Surely you can do the same?
 

MikeWh

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My employer only wants a photo. Paper is dead to them. I just need to remember to take it during the journey.
That's great for you, but it doesn't address the many people whose employer requires the actual ticket.
Whenever I use a TVM I am always able to obtain a receipt. That way when I need to include a receipt with expenses I am able to use this and not have to worry about gatelines retaining my ticket.
I believe ticket office staff give a receipt with the tickets by default, at least they have whenever I've used a counter, although I nearly always use a TVM or e-tickets.

Surely you can do the same?
Again, it depends on the HR/finance policies of the employer concerned. A TVM receipt doesn't always give the full details of the ticket.
 

XAM2175

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Don’t the machines automatically spit put a 3rd “ticket” as a receipt, or a paper one? Or have the option?
I believe ticket office staff give a receipt with the tickets by default, at least they have whenever I've used a counter, although I nearly always use a TVM or e-tickets.

The receipt merely indicates that you bought "rail tickets" at a certain place, date, and time, for a certain value. For some finance departments that is sufficient, but the less trusting will refuse to accept them as there's no certainty that the amount being claimed is correct for the journey.
 

Failed Unit

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That's great for you, but it doesn't address the many people whose employer requires the actual ticket.

Again, it depends on the HR/finance policies of the employer concerned. A TVM receipt doesn't always give the full details of the ticket.
I may be directing this off topic. But it doesn’t sound like the kind of company someone would want to work for to be honest. What are they trying to protect with doing this? It is not a legal requirement. But it is also opening up them to be exposed to more expensive tickets. For example a paper ticket on TFL is more than oyster. If I recall (as it is a long time since I had one). It just states the origin station and cost. So say Arnos Grove but nothing to prove you got off at Kings Cross or Earl’s Court.

you can print your oyster record of course, but this can be altered. Just as you can pick up a used ticket off the floor. Granted you don’t make the policy at such companies but I don’t understand what such a policy is going to achieve. Especially in this more digital age? It is really penalising employees that don’t use stations with TVM / ticket offices. Again this could cost them more as it requires you to purchase onboard and then you can’t take advantage of possible AP savings.
The PDF ticket has being a godsend to me. It can be forged (in the respect an employer won’t notice if I change the value) so it is odd some employers have so little trust in their staff.

suggest the original post starts looking for a new job at a more sensible employer - citing micromanagement as why they are leaving.

The receipt merely indicates that you bought "rail tickets" at a certain place, date, and time, for a certain value. For some finance departments that is sufficient, but the less trusting will refuse to accept them as there's no certainty that the amount being claimed is correct for the journey.
But let’s say you are travelling from Peterborough- London. You could still be not changing the distrustful company the best fare. You could have purchased a fully open fully flexible ticket, when you left at 1000 and and off-peak fare was fine. Maybe even use AP tickets. After all this is a poor employer so they won’t want you leaving the meeting early and going home anyway. The ticket doesn’t tell you the time you travelled just when you purchased it. It certainly doesn’t show if a 1st class AP was actually the cheapest option on the selected journey.

to me any employer that micromanaged in this way doesn’t deserve to employ me. Having the physical ticket does not prove I paid the best fare for said journey. That involves trust (or for them to purchase the ticket and issue it which many do).
 
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Hadders

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I don't understand why some companies have a higher threshold when it comes to expenses claims for rail journeys. A receipt should be sufficient (technically the ticket remains the property of the railway so they are entitled to keep it, it is rarely an issue if a passenger does need to keep a ticket). Companies are quite happy to pay mileage claims without a receipt detailing the exact details of the journey.
 

Failed Unit

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Most mileage claims I have done you need to put the a and b end. But you are correct, I doubt they check google maps to see if you did the shortest route. One company I worked for would not bat an eyelid at paying out circa £250 for driving from Glasgow - Manchester. But if I spend that on a train ticket for the same journey I would be fired (even if I provided said ticket).
 

HSP 2

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suggest the original post starts looking for a new job at a more sensible employer - citing micromanagement as why they are leaving.

I think that the OP may have a job changing his job with this employer, as he is going on jury service.
 

mailbyrail

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When I did jury service, only actual rail or bus tickets were accepted, ticket receipts were not reimbursed, as I discovered to my cost on the one day I put my ticket through the barrier and submitted the receipt in its place. Nine days with tickets reimbursed, one day with receipt, no payment.
So unless things have changed recently or differ from court to court, keep your ticket by whatever means possible.
 

Ediswan

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I don't understand why some companies have a higher threshold when it comes to expenses claims for rail journeys. A receipt should be sufficient (technically the ticket remains the property of the railway so they are entitled to keep it, it is rarely an issue if a passenger does need to keep a ticket). Companies are quite happy to pay mileage claims without a receipt detailing the exact details of the journey.
That was in the older conditions of carriage. It is not in the current conditions of travel.
 

35B

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I don't understand why some companies have a higher threshold when it comes to expenses claims for rail journeys. A receipt should be sufficient (technically the ticket remains the property of the railway so they are entitled to keep it, it is rarely an issue if a passenger does need to keep a ticket). Companies are quite happy to pay mileage claims without a receipt detailing the exact details of the journey.
Different companies have different approaches - I heard of one a few years ago that required both the ticket and the online booking matrix to prove that the cheapest had been purchased. Frequently, it's about a back office function that doesn't actually have to suffer it's own policies, and instead sets them up based on a pre-computer view of what are appropriate controls. And, depending on the precise policy, receipts do leave loopholes that can be exploited.

What is changing is the use of online systems - my employer uses SAP's Concur service, but it's one of many - to process expense claims, which means that the need for paper almost disappears. What makes it really effective is that it also integrates with our corporate cards, so employees get the benefit of payments being settled direct if we use the card, and the employer gets the benefit of being able to tie the various bits of transaction data together.
 

Bletchleyite

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Different companies have different approaches - I heard of one a few years ago that required both the ticket and the online booking matrix to prove that the cheapest had been purchased. Frequently, it's about a back office function that doesn't actually have to suffer it's own policies, and instead sets them up based on a pre-computer view of what are appropriate controls. And, depending on the precise policy, receipts do leave loopholes that can be exploited.

What is changing is the use of online systems - my employer uses SAP's Concur service, but it's one of many - to process expense claims, which means that the need for paper almost disappears. What makes it really effective is that it also integrates with our corporate cards, so employees get the benefit of payments being settled direct if we use the card, and the employer gets the benefit of being able to tie the various bits of transaction data together.

E-tickets change it too, as they can't be "eaten".

That said we are talking about the Court system here, which is not known for progressiveness and modernity.
 

tspaul26

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That was in the older conditions of carriage. It is not in the current conditions of travel.
But there is still a statutory requirement to “deliver up” the ticket on request from an officer of the railway. It’s in section 5(1) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.
 

island

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This discussion comes up from time to time on the forum. I personally think it is absurd for companies to require the production of original tickets, even though the clause that they are the property of the railway has seemingly vanished.

An online booking receipt contains the same information, many (though not all) station ticket office receipts detIl the journey as well as the price, and a photo of the tickets should also suffice to any finance or expense handling team possessed of an ounce of common sense.

As mentioned above, no ticket barrier can be in operation without staff monitoring, so the concern raised by the OP should not arise.
 

MikeWh

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suggest the original post starts looking for a new job at a more sensible employer - citing micromanagement as why they are leaving.
Suggest you re-read the OP and work out whether it is sensible to argue with a court.

And courts in London will accept Oyster journey history for either Oyster or contactless.
 
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