Retro Railtours

[Techniquest]

Would have been alright if ATW didn't insist on routing their Up WagEx via platform 2!

EDIT: I see the return via Lickey is axed, never mind. The climb up Llanvihangel will be very entertaining! 43002 and S482 up it was absolutely insanely enjoyable, I can't see why the 56s would be any different!

 

[4SRKT]

Another opportunity for the West Yorkshire based bashers. I've never had 56 haulage before. Defo interested in this, although 6:00 is too early for training it to Hudds. A later start and less time hanging about in Bath might be better.

 

[glynn80]

Part of me wants to be on from Huddersfield for the unusual opportunity to storm along the Pennines, but due to the lack of Hereford to Huddersfield Advance fares I dunno if that's going to be possible. But I do like the idea of joining at Shrewsbury, if nowt else I'll be there.

The fares manual states three companies offer "Advance" fares from Hereford to Huddersfield

rte XC &CONNECTIONS
Cross Country
MAS 24.00
MBS 20.50
MCS 15.50

rte AP MANCHESTER
Arriva Trains Wales
NBA 15.00
NCA 19.00
NDA 24.00
NEA 30.00

rte ATW WE & NS
Transpennine Express
1AF 47.00
1BF 40.00
1CF 32.00
2AF 26.00
2BF 22.00
2CF 18.00

Your spoilt for choice there, I can't think of many other flows between regional towns where three companies offer Advance fares!!

 

[1D53]

if someone buys me a ticket I'll let you sleep on my floor

 

[Techniquest]

glynn80: All fine and well, but last time I looked Advance fares weren't on sale for that bit, which was weird. Maybe they will be by the time we get closer to this, who knows?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

brilliant price, excellent traction, would be better as the 56 on the last tour I did was 37s so still need to ride a 56, however the March payment puts me off, won't be able to book until late April

 

[87015]

Nasty aircons quoted on wnxx, re-think required.... :neutral:

 

[theblackwatch]

Nasty aircons quoted on wnxx, re-think required.... :neutral:

With your username, I would've thought you'd feel right at home on that stock!

 

[87015]

With your username, I would've thought you'd feel right at home on that stock!

Not with grids though, would be nice to hear some noise without requiring to vestibule veg! Much prefer to chill in the saloon but not going to hear much if a few coaches back with aircons.

 

[Techniquest]

A good point that, I couldn't think why air-cons would be a bad idea until I read that! One expects the front two or three MK3s' vestibules to be crammed full then!

Even I'm now considering just linesiding to get the thrash, I don't fancy being 7 coaches away from the front and hearing nothing again. Did pretty much that on The Festive Settle and Carlisle Explorer on the northbound, I was not impressed. Coming back, in coach B in the vestibule, I was VERY impressed (I was converted to 56s immediately after leaving Carlisle! ), but the odds of hearing owt without being in the vestibules all day would make even the most hardcore bookie blush!

 

[37412]

Nasty aircons quoted on wnxx, re-think required.... :neutral:

You could come up to Caley with me that weekend, going for 097, theres some of those little Sulzers you like up there, e-mailed one of the guys up there and they seem a freindly bunch, sent me some hotel gen, apparently Saturday night gets an extra few trains than normal galas with a BBQ chucked in at the other end!

Did pretty much that on The Festive Settle and Carlisle Explorer on the northbound, I was not impressed.

Most tours have FC leading one way and std the other meaning you only hear the thrash one way, its nothing new!

 

[Mintona]

Thank you for not calling at Wilmslow Bloody slam doors

 

[Techniquest]

Most tours have FC leading one way and std the other meaning you only hear the thrash one way, its nothing new!

Fair point that, but I still don't fancy being on a load 13 tour, half of which being First Class (based on rough counts of Pathfinder tours) and then having to be at the furthest from the front vestibule to even see the loco. Even on the way back you've then got little chance of hearing owt, plus there's the weather to be concerned with (having your head out of a droplight at 0630 in pouring rain/freezing cold/both to try and hear the loco is not my idea of fun)...

 

[EE Type 3]

Fair point that, but I still don't fancy being on a load 13 tour, half of which being First Class (based on rough counts of Pathfinder tours) and then having to be at the furthest from the front vestibule to even see the loco. Even on the way back you've then got little chance of hearing owt, plus there's the weather to be concerned with (having your head out of a droplight at 0630 in pouring rain/freezing cold/both to try and hear the loco is not my idea of fun)...

If Standard is at the way back on the outward it'll be the same on the return, train being turned due to ronnie on the back, ronnies leading to and from Bristol. GM thrash anyone?

 

[TEW]

If Standard is at the way back on the outward it'll be the same on the return, train being turned due to ronnie on the back, ronnies leading to and from Bristol. GM thrash anyone?

I think what will happen is that the 57 will lead away from Bristol as the train has to reverse to get to Bath with the 56 on the back. From Bath I expect it will just be driven from 56 end back to Bristol to be stabled. From there they will probably swap the locos end with the 56s leading back to Bath for the 57 back to Bristol where the 56 and Standard(if trailing on the way down) will lead.

 

[EE Type 3]

I think what will happen is that the 57 will lead away from Bristol as the train has to reverse to get to Bath with the 56 on the back. From Bath I expect it will just be driven from 56 end back to Bristol to be stabled. From there they will probably swap the locos end with the 56s leading back to Bath for the 57 back to Bristol where the 56 and Standard(if trailing on the way down) will lead.

If you read it, it says the 57 will lead back to Bath. No double run rounds.

 

[TEW]

If you read it, it says the 57 will lead back to Bath. No double run rounds.

No the it says the 57 will lead Bristol-Bath and then Bath-Bristol.
This either requires the train to be reversed which is unlikely due to the ECS miles or hassle or the locos swapped. It will almost certainly run back to Bristol to stable as it cant at Bath. The best way tog et it back is to simply drive from the Class 56 end from Bath to Bristol and Bristol to Bath.

 

[theblackwatch]

If you read it, it says the 57 will lead back to Bath. No double run rounds.

Sorry, where does it say that there are no double run rounds and the train will be turned?

 

[EE Type 3]

Sorry, where does it say that there are no double run rounds and the train will be turned?

The fact that the 57 is leading in and out of Bath would suggest a turning move, maybe Westbury? A double run round in Bristol wouldn't be possible would it?

 

[Techniquest]

Could always take it empty to Thingley Junction, reverse and traverse the line through Melksham and reverse at Bradford Junction or Westbury (not sure it can be signalled at Bradford Junction, hence the Westbury suggestion) to head back to Bath. Whilst waiting for the hours to pass, it could sit in Bathampton Loop (assuming no freight needs it).

That or it could run back to Bristol East, fester there for X hours then return to pick everyone up. I should imagine a double run-round would be possible in that yard in the time given for the norms to poke their heads around Bath before returning and picking everyone up.

 

[theblackwatch]

The fact that the 57 is leading in and out of Bath would suggest a turning move, maybe Westbury? A double run round in Bristol wouldn't be possible would it?

So you're working on an assumption rather than a fact! Whilst what you suggest is possible, it's not confirmed is it? It would be quie possible to run round in the TOC's yard at Westbury. Probably best to just wait and see!

 

[yorkie]

I think ATW have not released AP fares for this date yet, but they are on sale up to the previous week. The fare is £9.90 with a Y-P. TPE have a quota on these fares which sells out long before the ATW trains. It may be cheaper to book to Leeds via Hebden Bridge (£10.55) and Manchester to Leeds will be valid by any train as you only get a 'Suggested service' you can then leave early at 'uddersfield. (locals do not pronounce the H )

I'm not sure if there are barriers at 'udds and if there are whether or not they may moan at an AP being cut short - if so buy a Deighton to Huddersfield Anytime Single for 65p to work the barriers.

 

[metrocammel]

So you're working on an assumption rather than a fact! Whilst what you suggest is possible, it's not confirmed is it? It would be quie possible to run round in the TOC's yard at Westbury. Probably best to just wait and see!

You may just be right there, there is a meeting with EWS / Rail Blue soon that will touch upon that. If that is the case, we will be able to have the bashers at one end for all the cl56 bits- and thus no disturbing the dining pax with people running through, and knocking over the waiter with his big bowl of soup (or similar Fawlty Towers type scenario that could potentially happen :P)

 

[The Snap]

You may just be right there, there is a meeting with EWS / Rail Blue soon that will touch upon that. If that is the case, we will be able to have the bashers at one end for all the cl56 bits- and thus no disturbing the dining pax with people running through, and knocking over the waiter with his big bowl of soup (or similar Fawlty Towers type scenario that could potentially happen :P)

Finally! A tour operator that actually acknowledges bashers! I've been with Pathfinder and Green Express before, both of whom seemed unaware that there was even such a thing as a "basher" and complained at everyone who was taking part in any kind of bashing activity!

CFPS and Past Time are the only two I've come across that are basher-friendly. I'll add Retro to my list. Out of interest (and so I can amend my list further ), are Spitfire any good for bashers or do they pull their faces too?

Ta,

 

[Techniquest]

You may just be right there, there is a meeting with EWS / Rail Blue soon that will touch upon that. If that is the case, we will be able to have the bashers at one end for all the cl56 bits- and thus no disturbing the dining pax with people running through, and knocking over the waiter with his big bowl of soup (or similar Fawlty Towers type scenario that could potentially happen :P)

Finally, a railtour operator who not only acknowledges the existance of bashers in the 21st Century but one who wishes to put them all at the relevant end of the train!

 

[alex57601]

Looking through the thread I will like to add my tuppence worth to two points.

Someone pointed out about formations and what will be at what end. While tour companies may request to have the rake formed with one class at a particular end it is really down to how the rake is shunted together before the tour and if the rake gets turned en-route ECS if it is one loco on its own thus saving a run round. Also I don't think First Class passengers will appreciate the extra walking if their coach is located at the back of the train at the start and end of their tours. In conclusion, it can sometimes be down to pot luck.

Second point, 87015 commented on the use of "nasty air-cons". Personally, air-cons are the way forward for charter work simply because of the improved comfort and quality they offer over Mk1/Mk2 PVs. Furthermore, if you were to do a tour on the Cumbrian Coast for example and if it involves a run between Maryport and Carlisle, air-cons are the only way you're going to be able to do it on a railtour with all vestibules stewarded. Anyway, as theblackwatch pointed out, what type of stock did the Class 87s work for a good majority of their working lives?

As for the comments about the Bristol-Bath-Bristol leg and what will be leading, what needs to be done etc. There's no point jumping to conclusions based on assumptions as it all depends on what paths are available and whether there is enough time to do the moves that have been suggested.

 

[theblackwatch]

Finally! A tour operator that actually acknowledges bashers! I've been with Pathfinder and Green Express before, both of whom seemed unaware that there was even such a thing as a "basher" and complained at everyone who was taking part in any kind of bashing activity!

CFPS and Past Time are the only two I've come across that are basher-friendly. I'll add Retro to my list. Out of interest (and so I can amend my list further ), are Spitfire any good for bashers or do they pull their faces too?

Ta,

What do you mean by basher friendly and bashing activity? If you think you will be allowed to scream out of windows, flail like a moron, think you have a right to enter first or dining coaches when you've only paid for standard and generally act like a knobhead, then I'm afraid you won't be allowed to do that on any operators trains. If on the other hand, your behaviour is sensible and will not annoy other passengers or bystanders, it will probably be ok.

 

[87015]

Second point, 87015 commented on the use of "nasty air-cons". Personally, air-cons are the way forward for charter work simply because of the improved comfort and quality they offer over Mk1/Mk2 PVs. Furthermore, if you were to do a tour on the Cumbrian Coast for example and if it involves a run between Maryport and Carlisle, air-cons are the only way you're going to be able to do it on a railtour with all vestibules stewarded. Anyway, as theblackwatch pointed out, what type of stock did the Class 87s work for a good majority of their working lives?

Nicely ignored the follow up post then. Its a personal opinion. There is a big difference in what I am/was looking for in a day out between doing 87s and a grid-hauled RAILTOUR. If you are happy to spend £50+ and not hear a thing all day because you are three coaches back in some musty coffin then fair enough, but I'd rather not, especially when it is effectively a choice between this and the SRPS job a week later. Oh and please tell how the Cumbrian Coast is even slightly relevant to Huddersfield-Bath?! Its pretty basic fact that you will hear a lot less loco noise in a coffin, and surprisingly enough thats quite an important factor to some people.

Advertise it as aircons if it is, not "traditional BR carriages" which to me at least means pv stock.

I'd recommend Spitfire to anyone, but as mentioned earlier I'm not the vestibule-all-day type.

 

[theblackwatch]

Going mad!

No, i just believe in giving an honest and truthful response! No point beating round the bush!

 

[4SRKT]

Well, FWIW my friend and I were considering this tour as it looked like a bit of a corker, but if it's air-cons, then we're simply not interested. We're not bashers as such (don't flail or shout My Lordz, although we don't really have a problem with those who do), but there's no atmosphere shut up in a coffin for 12+ hours. If it's just a day out and some dining people want, that's fine, and air-cons are fine. Why then would such a tour be hauled by a pair of 56s when a deadly dull ETH duff would be OK for the dining fraternity? The mere presence of a pair of 56s suggests that the basher market is at least being considered, and air-cons are inconsistent with bashing. With PV coaches, a tour operator can be in both markets. Won't some sort of duffage or bodysnatcher or whatever have to be be tacked on throughout the train's working anyway if the air-con is going to be switched on? Getting less appealing by the minute.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

are Spitfire any good for bashers or do they pull their faces too?

Ta,

There were a lot of bashers on the Capital Whistler in November, but since that ended up in a punch-up, I'm not sure how much Spitfire like bashers. They had a notice in the tour leaflet specifically banning flailing and bellowing, threatening offenders with ejection. There was a lot of leaning out, and a bit of flailing on the day, but until everyone got hammered, the whole thing was pretty low key.

I'm expecting much the same on the Celtic Growler in March. Sans punch-up of course!