Return fares between Haywards Heath and Sutton

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by infobleep, 18 Aug 2015.

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  1. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Hi there

    When looking up how one might get from Haywards Heath to Sutton (Surrey) / Sutton (London), I noticed that no return fares were coming up.

    Is that likely to be due to the fastest journey times involving doubling back? The fares certainly exist in BR fares.

    Update: for the journey Sutton to Haywards Heath it's not even finding signal fares, let alone returns.

    Again I assume the fastest journey is not allowed. For Sutton to Haywards Heath it advises people to go to West Croydon and walk to East Croydon.
     
    Last edited: 18 Aug 2015
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  3. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    NRE is showing them for me, either via Clapham Junction or via Norwood Junction (route Not London Terminals)
     
  4. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I didn't put in any via points because I didn't know which via points produces quickest valid route for a single ticket.
     
  5. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    Nor did I, those were just the routes NRE showed, but I unchecked "fastest only."
     
  6. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    OK. I didn't do that. I will play around further as I'm now interested to see the time difference between the fastest possible journey and the fastest valid journey.

    It'd adds about 5-10 minutes or more onto the journeys vers the fastest route. So the fastest morning journey at 7.43 takes 1 hour 5 minutes and the fastest valid route is 7.40 at 1 hour 10 minutes.

    In the evening from Sutton to Haywards Heath to an just over an hour and 10 minutes vers about am hour on the fastest not valid route.

    It also cuts down the number of trains and connections one can take from Haywards Heath to reach Sutton.

    Using the official National Rail Enquiries App, it's actually not possible to click off fastest journey and it seems most if not all valid fastest journeys get overtaken so never show up unless you know the correct via point.

    Interestingly the fast route is valid using Oyster pay and go or contactless if travelling within the zones
     
    Last edited: 18 Aug 2015
  7. bb21

    bb21 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I would expect that the Not Via Claphm J tickets would be valid via stations such as Balham, the Streatham stations, Tulse Hill and Crystal Palace, while the Not Via London tickets additionally via Clapham Junction.
     
  8. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I'm sure Tulse Hill was more expensive but I may be misremebering.
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If Tulse Hill were on a permitted route, it would be valid on the cheapest Not Via Claphm J tickets, as the route (presumably) does not go through Clapham Junction.
     
  10. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    And yet it seems a NOT VIA LONDON Super Off-Peak Day Return is the same price as a NOT VIA CLAPHM J Off-Peak Day Return!
     
  11. bb21

    bb21 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The given route is still the cheapest isn't it?
     
  12. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Interestingly if you put in Carshalton into the National Rail Enquiries App it offers you a travel card, despite there being singles and returns available via the officially permitted routes.

    What's odd about this is that, that isn't offered for Sutton, despite a near identical itinerary. The only thing to change I could see in one itinerary was that Sutton is one stop further on from Carshalton.

    I wonder if many people would buy the travel card at £46, not realising a much cheaper journey exists if you don't mind travelling for a little bit longer on the officially permitted route.
     
  13. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    NRE doesn't show up the NOT VIA CLJ fare for journeys via Norwood Jn, which is odd....

    My apologies, I hadn't read #5 properly ,and was still working on Offpeak fares.

    NRE is refusing to show Anytime Day Returns and if you click on Details it switches to a Day Travelcard... sounds like another bug in the system?
     
    Last edited: 19 Aug 2015
  14. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I'm using the official App, which for something's I prefer as you can see past history of trains on the online departure boards.
     
  15. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    If you search for Sutton-Haywards Heath in NRE and check the details for a return journey, the problem is that it isn't suggesting that people walk between West Croydon and East Croydon. It's suggesting they use Tramlink. For some reason, you have to click on "with Travelcard" before it will suggest any "return" fares. I would have expected it to suggest a Travelcard on its own initiative.

    The NRE "cheapest fare finder" still works, though.

    Expecting people to use trams appears to be an issue which NRE shares with Trainline-based journey planners. Assertis and WebTIS send people via Norwood Junction or Selhurst instead, and so avoid the problem.
     
  16. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Interesting. I was only looking during morning peak rush hour and evening peak rush hour

    Doing that using the Southern Web Site does not bring up return fares. So enter 7.30 for outward journey and 17.00 for return.

    It seems during the day outside of peak you do get return fares being displayed. Looking closely I see that the evening journeys indeed don't suggest the tram.

    Incidentally I was also looking up the journey from Guildford to Sutton and during the evening peak one suggestion was to travel via Dorking main. It allowed you three minutes to walk between Dorking Main and Dorking Deepdene. At least it allowed time either side of that or you'd miss the train. Overall time between services was 9 minutes.

    Its the 17.51 from Sutton. That is only 4 minutes slower than the direct no change service from Sutton to Guildford service.
     
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