Return to Education

[Cdd89]

I don’t have a view either way on sampling, but I do think “do you support a lockdown” is not a question that is answered truthfully. To not support a lockdown is heresy because it means putting at risk our ‘treasured’ NHS. It is to go against the parade of scientists that are presented in the media.

And yet when you stop focusing on responses to that question and instead look at how people behave, a different picture is painted. Well over 20% of the population were out and about in the run up to each lockdown apart from the first. A lot of those that support a lockdown actually mean a lockdown of the things they don’t personally do. Some people want them for ulterior motives. In short that 80% hides an awful lot of hypocrisy.

It’s the same as that statistic that kept getting quoted in the summer about how only 4% wanted to return to the old normal after the pandemic is over. That was seized upon by people who want a particular agenda of widescale systemic change but there would be no agreement among those 96% as to what changes they’d like.

 

[yorkie]

I've not had much time to visit the forum yesterday or today, but I wonder how many people realise how busy school staff are right now?

I worked about 13 hours yesterday and will probably do the same again today. I am only supposed to work 30 hours in this job in an entire week!

I really do think the general population have no idea what goes on in schools, and what parents and students really think.

Unfortunately some parents are going to be frustrated right now as there is absolutely no way schools can cope with the number of requests they are getting. We are getting something crazy like one months work of contacts in a 24 hour period (very rough guess not based on anything scientific). I am going to be working most of this evening to clear my backlog.

As for YouGov, it's nonsense! I did some YouGov polls in the late Spring when I had little else to do; generally doing them when on a train or something like that. However I soon realised that the only people who would do these polls are people with FAR too much time on their hands and vowed never to do one again. To suggest they are representative of ordinary working people is utterly absurd; anyone who thinks that has no grasp of reality.

Sorry if I sound annoyed; I am a positive person for the most part, but I feel I need to have a bit of a rant right now, to get this off my chest I'm actually enjoying being busy today and having some great interactions with people who really appreciate the work we do.

 

[kristiang85]

I've not had much time to visit the forum yesterday or today, but I wonder how many people realise how busy school staff are right now?

I worked about 13 hours yesterday and will probably do the same again today. I am only supposed to work 30 hours in this job in an entire week!

I really do think the general population have no idea what goes on in schools, and what parents and students really think.

Yep. My fiancee (primary school teacher) was in work yesterday from 7am to 7pm, then after Boris' announcement got a flurry of emails from work and then was preparing until 1am this morning.

She was gone before I woke up this morning, and I doubt I'll see her until dinner time this evening.

 

[Ianno87]

My son's primary closed completely today, including to key worker children, just to give a day to prepare for remote learning etc.

It was hard not to see their (understandable) sheer frustration written into the e-mail they sent to parents last night.

 

[Darandio]

My son's primary closed completely today, including to key worker children, just to give a day to prepare for remote learning etc.

It was hard not to see their (understandable) sheer frustration written into the e-mail they sent to parents last night.

The one my son attends is open for key workers but I could also see the frustration in the e-mail they sent, they went out at nearly 11pm. It ties in with what @yorkie has just posted above about how hard staff are working, it was the same from March onwards when staff were regularly going above and beyond at weekends while trying to manage the shambles that was the school meals voucher system at the time. It shouldn't be like this.

 

[bb21]

I've not had much time to visit the forum yesterday or today, but I wonder how many people realise how busy school staff are right now?

I worked about 13 hours yesterday and will probably do the same again today. I am only supposed to work 30 hours in this job in an entire week!

I really do think the general population have no idea what goes on in schools, and what parents and students really think.

Unfortunately some parents are going to be frustrated right now as there is absolutely no way schools can cope with the number of requests they are getting. We are getting something crazy like one months work of contacts in a 24 hour period (very rough guess not based on anything scientific). I am going to be working most of this evening to clear my backlog.

As for YouGov, it's nonsense! I did some YouGov polls in the late Spring when I had little else to do; generally doing them when on a train or something like that. However I soon realised that the only people who would do these polls are people with FAR too much time on their hands and vowed never to do one again. To suggest they are representative of ordinary working people is utterly absurd; anyone who thinks that has no grasp of reality.

Sorry if I sound annoyed; I am a positive person for the most part, but I feel I need to have a bit of a rant right now, to get this off my chest I'm actually enjoying being busy today and having some great interactions with people who really appreciate the work we do.

I'm sorry yorkie but we have to agree to disagree on YouGov. It is a well respected organisation for their impartiality, and that is not just on my say-so. The respect is from within the professional circle demonstrated by the quality of their work. It is not something that can be obtained without consistently high quality over a substantial period of time. Yes there are issues related to how truly representative their samples can be, as with all polling methods, however all experienced polling organisations have mechanisms in place to ensure this is accounted for as much as they can, and these mechanisms are constantly evolving. The error margins also account for sampling errors. I don't think it would be fair to discredit the work of such an organisation without good scientific evidence to the contrary.

I think what you have demonstrated is that the organisation is controversial, which I think many will agree. Science should not be afraid of causing controversy and should not be swayed by public opinion, whichever direction it blows.

All polls have error margins as I mentioned before. Unfortunately people often read and interpret survey results incorrectly and/or doctor it to fit their own agenda. That is not the fault of the polling organisations (some better than others of course) or the science behind it. I also agree with a point raised earlier by someone else that if a biased question is asked then the answer will be nonsense, however the quoted Guardian example is not one as it is a fully open question. If people refuse to answer truthfully again it is not the fault of the polling organisation. If such behaviour were foreseeable and/or detected during the process, they could of course adjust and scale the results accordingly, amongst a whole host of other actions to ensure the quality of the results. There is no evidence I can see at least as far as this poll is concerned which suggests they have done it badly and no one in this discussion has provided any such evidence.

Coincidentally today during a company call I got chatting to one of my colleagues whose wife's school is closed. Apparently every one in her department (about 4-5) agreed that it is best for the school to close, however several expressed similar concerns you raised regarding the academic progress of students and their wellbeing on many fronts, and that is also more broadly reflected amongst the staff team at the school (no numbers mentioned). Leaving the teaching unions aside, I think these concerns are widely shared amongst the teaching community, but it is also probably true that opinions on schools closing are quite mixed, understandably. I have no doubt as to the validity of what you have observed, and equally no reason to doubt my colleague's words. The one thing I cannot do is use this thread as a benchmark for the mood amongst the wider teaching community, although I appreciate some very valid points made in this thread by various members which I fully agree with. As you mentioned earlier, it is not difficult to find another forum where the overwhelming mood is in the opposite direction.

I don't think there is anything to apologise for for being annoyed. I don't think I have seen anyone else more passionately express their concerns. Many people are annoyed. I just get the impression from reading this thread and other discussion forums that the real public mood may be far more nuanced than how it appears in this thread, which may or may not be a result of the confusing environment we find ourselves in. Whether pro- or anti-closure is in the lead is probably very difficult to say.

 

[The Ham]

I've not had much time to visit the forum yesterday or today, but I wonder how many people realise how busy school staff are right now?

I worked about 13 hours yesterday and will probably do the same again today. I am only supposed to work 30 hours in this job in an entire week!

I really do think the general population have no idea what goes on in schools, and what parents and students really think.

Unfortunately some parents are going to be frustrated right now as there is absolutely no way schools can cope with the number of requests they are getting. We are getting something crazy like one months work of contacts in a 24 hour period (very rough guess not based on anything scientific). I am going to be working most of this evening to clear my backlog.

As for YouGov, it's nonsense! I did some YouGov polls in the late Spring when I had little else to do; generally doing them when on a train or something like that. However I soon realised that the only people who would do these polls are people with FAR too much time on their hands and vowed never to do one again. To suggest they are representative of ordinary working people is utterly absurd; anyone who thinks that has no grasp of reality.

Sorry if I sound annoyed; I am a positive person for the most part, but I feel I need to have a bit of a rant right now, to get this off my chest I'm actually enjoying being busy today and having some great interactions with people who really appreciate the work we do.

We too had emails from the schools my children attend at 11pm, we also submitted homework mid afternoon to the teaching portal (school was due to be back today) and had a reply within a few hours (which isn't unusual, even during weekends). I suspect that we weren't the only ones submitting at that time.

Whilst there are times when teachers don't get what others jobs are like, in sure that I probably make similar mistakes when thinking about what others (including teachers) do and have to put up with.

I'm sorry yorkie but we have to agree to disagree on YouGov. It is a well respected organisation for their impartiality, and that is not just on my say-so. The respect is from within the professional circle demonstrated by the quality of their work. It is not something that can be obtained without consistently high quality over a substantial period of time. Yes there are issues related to how truly representative their samples can be, as with all polling methods, however all experienced polling organisations have mechanisms in place to ensure this is accounted for as much as they can, and these mechanisms are constantly evolving. The error margins also account for sampling errors. I don't think it would be fair to discredit the work of such an organisation without good scientific evidence to the contrary.

I think what you have demonstrated is that the organisation is controversial, which I think many will agree. Science should not be afraid of causing controversy and should not be swayed by public opinion, whichever direction it blows.

All polls have error margins as I mentioned before. Unfortunately people often read and interpret survey results incorrectly and/or doctor it to fit their own agenda. That is not the fault of the polling organisations (some better than others of course) or the science behind it. I also agree with a point raised earlier by someone else that if a biased question is asked then the answer will be nonsense, however the quoted Guardian example is not one as it is a fully open question. If people refuse to answer truthfully again it is not the fault of the polling organisation. If such behaviour were foreseeable and/or detected during the process, they could of course adjust and scale the results accordingly, amongst a whole host of other actions to ensure the quality of the results. There is no evidence I can see at least as far as this poll is concerned which suggests they have done it badly and no one in this discussion has provided any such evidence.

Coincidentally today during a company call I got chatting to one of my colleagues whose wife's school is closed. Apparently every one in her department (about 4-5) agreed that it is best for the school to close, however several expressed similar concerns you raised regarding the academic progress of students and their wellbeing on many fronts, and that is also more broadly reflected amongst the staff team at the school (no numbers mentioned). Leaving the teaching unions aside, I think these concerns are widely shared amongst the teaching community, but it is also probably true that opinions on schools closing are quite mixed, understandably. I have no doubt as to the validity of what you have observed, and equally no reason to doubt my colleague's words. The one thing I cannot do is use this thread as a benchmark for the mood amongst the wider teaching community, although I appreciate some very valid points made in this thread by various members which I fully agree with. As you mentioned earlier, it is not difficult to find another forum where the overwhelming mood is in the opposite direction.

I don't think there is anything to apologise for for being annoyed. I don't think I have seen anyone else more passionately express their concerns. Many people are annoyed. I just get the impression from reading this thread and other discussion forums that the real public mood may be far more nuanced than how it appears in this thread, which may or may not be a result of the confusing environment we find ourselves in. Whether pro- or anti-closure is in the lead is probably very difficult to say.

The likes of YouGov rely on algorithms to scale up the results that they get.

For most things they can be fairly confident that they've got it right. However there's always going to be things which throw their numbers out (see Brixit as a good example).

If they have asked too many people who have children who can be left to their own devices, those who have connections to those with high risk groups, and the like them it's going to skew the answers.

Of course it depends on the question.

"Do you think that there should be a short lockdown to get cases down?" would get a lot more support than "Do you think that schools should be closed for half a term?".

The other factor to consider is the speed at which the schools were closed, of primary schools were given this week in the school (even if it was optional) it would have helped staff and parents (and the wider community, as parents may be childminders, nursery staff, etc. which may then have wider implications) adapt.

As a parent the last 24 hours has been a bit of a rush trying to work out how both myself and my wife can carry on working whilst trying to understand what childcare options are available, what our work will be willing to do, keeping up to date with the information from the schools (being mindful that they are also trying to understand the guidance and pass on the information to parents whilst preping distance learning for the rest of this week, maybe even for today).

 

[bb21]

The likes of YouGov rely on algorithms to scale up the results that they get.

For most things they can be fairly confident that they've got it right. However there's always going to be things which throw their numbers out (see Brixit as a good example).

If they have asked too many people who have children who can be left to their own devices, those who have connections to those with high risk groups, and the like them it's going to skew the answers.

Of course it depends on the question.

"Do you think that there should be a short lockdown to get cases down?" would get a lot more support than "Do you think that schools should be closed for half a term?".

No doubt they do that, but more importantly any respectable polling organisation would ensure that the algorithm is continually monitored and improved. You are right there will always be the curve ball from time to time to throw individual results off course, and we have had plenty of such examples in the last few years, which is why it is so important to understand how to correctly interpret the results, and yes, it is very important to get the question right.

The other factor to consider is the speed at which the schools were closed, of primary schools were given this week in the school (even if it was optional) it would have helped staff and parents (and the wider community, as parents may be childminders, nursery staff, etc. which may then have wider implications) adapt.

As a parent the last 24 hours has been a bit of a rush trying to work out how both myself and my wife can carry on working whilst trying to understand what childcare options are available, what our work will be willing to do, keeping up to date with the information from the schools (being mindful that they are also trying to understand the guidance and pass on the information to parents whilst preping distance learning for the rest of this week, maybe even for today).

I don't think you are the only one thinking that. What is "ideal" and what is practical are often two very different things and it would appear our government have very little understanding of the challenges facing the ordinary public in their day-to-day life.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

When asked by Sam Coates at today's press conference, Boris Johnson could not give a solid answer as to whether school children will be back in the classroom before the Summer holidays.

He only trotted out words to the effect of "better by Spring".

 

[farleigh]

Yep. My fiancee (primary school teacher) was in work yesterday from 7am to 7pm, then after Boris' announcement got a flurry of emails from work and then was preparing until 1am this morning.

She was gone before I woke up this morning, and I doubt I'll see her until dinner time this evening.

Teachers can be a funny lot

They will work crazy hours with no overtime pay and very little praise sometimes.

Very impressive really.

I hope your fiance gets some recognition for that (and some rest)

 

[UP13]

Teachers can be a funny lot

They will work crazy hours with no overtime pay and very little praise sometimes.

Very impressive really.

I hope your fiance gets some recognition for that (and some rest)

I'm a teacher and yes we are a strange bunch.

 

[bramling]

When asked by Sam Coates at today's press conference, Boris Johnson could not give a solid answer as to whether school children will be back in the classroom before the Summer holidays.

He only trotted out words to the effect of "better by Spring".

To be fair, we can’t criticise BJ for the string of false promises, and then criticise him when he actually avoids making on.

I’d place a bet the schools won’t be back before the summer term, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re not back by September. Either is pretty unacceptable IMO, but it’s what I suspect is going to happen. Once they’re off it’s hard to get them back.

 

[The Ham]

Teachers can be a funny lot

They will work crazy hours with no overtime pay and very little praise sometimes.

Very impressive really.

I hope your fiance gets some recognition for that (and some rest)

I think it depends on what job you do as it's not uncommon for salaried jobs in the private sector (I don't know about the public sector which is why I've differentiated) don't offer paid overtime.

As for crazy hours, that too depends on the job and there's often a perception that the higher up you are the more extra hours you'll put in for free (or at least you'll do those non fee earning things outside of contacted hours so that you met your fee targets, including things like PR material to promote your company on social media).

That's not too belittle teachers, just rather to highlight they may not be quite so away from the norm from others doing different jobs as it may appear to those who work in a different systems.

 

[alex397]

To be fair, we can’t criticise BJ for the string of false promises, and then criticise him when he actually avoids making on.

I’d place a bet the schools won’t be back before the summer term, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re not back by September. Either is pretty unacceptable IMO, but it’s what I suspect is going to happen. Once they’re off it’s hard to get them back.

It is good he hasn’t made another false promise with the return of schools. I don’t think the general population can take much more false promises!

I really hope you are wrong with the return of schools. It will be detrimental in so many ways, but I’m certainly not going to bet that they will return before summer. Unless the furlough is further extended, I would imagine redundancies for lots of support staff.
I am hopeful for a return after February half term, or after Easter. Maybe that’s too optimistic.

 

[Ianno87]

It is good he hasn’t made another false promise with the return of schools. I don’t think the general population can take much more false promises!

I think not offering high promises this time does help a little; back in March the 'only 3 weeks' just made everybody muddle through and bear it initially.... and then it got hard once it was clear it was going to last much longer...

This time, feels more like pacing for a marathon than a sprint (helped by a "reset" over Christmas).

 

[johntea]

Fears schools will be overwhelmed by laptopless pupils

Allowing pupils without laptops into schools could limit the impact of the closures, say head.

www.bbc.co.uk

There are concerns some schools in lockdown could be inundated with pupils without laptops after a change to the vulnerable pupil list.
Pupils are learning remotely in England after schools were closed on Tuesday to all but children of key workers and those deemed vulnerable.
But those without laptops or space to study are now eligible to attend school, under government guidance.
Heads' union, NAHT, said the move could reduce the effect of the shutdown.
Schools were ordered to close to most pupils as a way of limiting the spread of the virus.
National Association of Head Teachers general secretary Paul Whiteman said demand for key worker and vulnerable places in schools had risen substantially since the last school shutdown.

Thing is, as an IT engineer that spent 9 years working in education it isn't quite as simple as just ordering 50,000 laptops and calling that a job well done! Presumably they're just expecting the 3-4 strong IT support team (less in plenty of cases!) in a school to now support all remote learning calls for help on top of their day to day job too

Also I see a lot of parents on Facebook at the moment complaining they have 3 kids but 1 laptop which is also causing issues if they're all expected to stick to a timetable, but schools have always worked on the basis of "3 pupils to 1 computer" or similar when planning IT suites, which is now obviously a bit of an issue considering the schools have been instructed by the Government to essentially offer 1:1 remote learning!

 

[Ianno87]

Fears schools will be overwhelmed by laptopless pupils

Allowing pupils without laptops into schools could limit the impact of the closures, say head.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thing is, as an IT engineer that spent 9 years working in education it isn't quite as simple as just ordering 50,000 laptops and calling that a job well done! Presumably they're just expecting the 3-4 strong IT support team (less in plenty of cases!) in a school to now support all remote learning calls for help on top of their day to day job too

Also I see a lot of parents on Facebook at the moment complaining they have 3 kids but 1 laptop which is also causing issues if they're all expected to stick to a timetable, but schools have always worked on the basis of "3 pupils to 1 computer" or similar when planning IT suites, which is now obviously a bit of an issue considering the schools have been instructed by the Government to essentially offer 1:1 remote learning!

Teachers themselves have spent far too many hours this week sorting IT issues out. For a primary school, there usually is no "IT Support team" at all!

 

[UP13]

Parents have been invited to report teachers to Ofsted if they are unsatisfied with video lessons... Just what us teachers need...

DfE is now making us take registers of all Zoom participants and yet us teachers get the abuse from parents when we chase up why a kid wasn't on Zoom...

I'm in the situation where I'm in class with 6 kids on devices supervising their learning while simultaneously giving real time support to 24 kids and their stressing parents.

 

[Richard Scott]

Parents have been invited to report teachers to Ofsted if they are unsatisfied with video lessons... Just what us teachers need...

DfE is now making us take registers of all Zoom participants and yet us teachers get the abuse from parents when we chase up why a kid wasn't on Zoom...

I'm in the situation where I'm in class with 6 kids on devices supervising their learning while simultaneously giving real time support to 24 kids and their stressing parents.

All that will happen is unions will advise against video lessons and pupils will lose out. Another clown with a stupid idea.

 

[The Ham]

We had an email from one of our children's schools which confirmed that they had about 1/4 of all children in and that figure was likely to rise (not sure if that last bit was written before or after the latest guidance widening those who could go in).

 

[UP13]

Big difference from previous lockdown is that the definition of a key worker is broader and now you just need one key worker parent, not two, to get a place.

My wife claims she read somewhere that 70% of parents have tried to get their child a key worker place.

The parents WhatsApp for my daughter's class is full of parents sharing tips on how to get children in, not because they are key workers but because they are fed up with home schooling. Also a mixture of parents saying the school should do even more zoom lessons etc and parents saying they should just let the kids play and bake at home because life is too short and it won't hurt their long term development...

As a primary teacher I can tell you the 6 month school closure last year had a huge impact. Reading levels down, forgetting how to write or hold a pencil, kids regressing because their parents didn't support then or kids not being able to do anything independently and constantly needing adult support because they got so used to have a parent giving them 1:1 support.

It was a struggle after the first school closure, I'm dreading the legacy of this school closure...

 

[Alex C.]

Apart from anything else there's going to be a lot more 'essential' workers in places like McDonalds or offices which closed during lockdown one voluntarily but are under no obligation to now. The key worker list is now fairly broad, me and my partner both qualify despite doing jobs which are definitely not 'key' to society.

 

[Fred Dinenage]

I've not had much time to visit the forum yesterday or today, but I wonder how many people realise how busy school staff are right now?

I worked about 13 hours yesterday and will probably do the same again today. I am only supposed to work 30 hours in this job in an entire week!

I really do think the general population have no idea what goes on in schools, and what parents and students really think.

Unfortunately some parents are going to be frustrated right now as there is absolutely no way schools can cope with the number of requests they are getting. We are getting something crazy like one months work of contacts in a 24 hour period (very rough guess not based on anything scientific). I am going to be working most of this evening to clear my backlog.

As for YouGov, it's nonsense! I did some YouGov polls in the late Spring when I had little else to do; generally doing them when on a train or something like that. However I soon realised that the only people who would do these polls are people with FAR too much time on their hands and vowed never to do one again. To suggest they are representative of ordinary working people is utterly absurd; anyone who thinks that has no grasp of reality.

Sorry if I sound annoyed; I am a positive person for the most part, but I feel I need to have a bit of a rant right now, to get this off my chest I'm actually enjoying being busy today and having some great interactions with people who really appreciate the work we do.

I’ve been here a while, were you a conductor? What do you do now that places you in such a position to comment authoritatively on the education system?

Asking so I can clarify how well-positioned you are...you seem to generalise a lot about having “the ear” of those in education.

FWIW, my wife is a teacher of 20 years, union representative, also a school governor.

Your comments in the past have mentioned “most teachers I’ve spoken to”, or similar.

How many do you talk to? Is it in the hundreds? Thousands?

Just curious.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Surge in pupils at school in lockdown sparks call for limit

With attendance as high as 50% in some areas, heads call for pupil limits in England's lockdown schools.

www.bbc.co.uk

Heads are calling for limits to the number of pupils in school during lockdown in England, with attendance rates surging to 50% in some places.

The two head teachers' unions, NAHT and ASCL, say the high numbers attending could hamper the fight against the virus.

The Department for Education has widened the categories of vulnerable and key worker pupils who can attend.

It is insisting that schools ensure all children who qualify can attend.

The widened categories not only include vulnerable pupils and children of workers in critical occupations but also those who cannot access remote learning either because they do not have devices or space to study.

Children of parents working on the Brexit arrangements are also included.

Teachers have described streets around schools being packed with parents dropping off their children and almost all staff having to come in and work despite the lockdown.

Heads say they fear schools could be overwhelmed by children who do not have access to lap tops to learn remotely.

Jessica Jane, a learning assistant at a school in Hampshire, told the BBC: "I work in a primary school where we are having to bring in every single member of staff as the list of key-workers is vast in our area and over 50% of our children are attending.

"Our community school is not closed and streets are packed with parents morning and afternoon collecting their children from open schools."

She added: "My colleagues and I are still being put at risk every single day as are our families."

A teacher from the Midlands who did not wish to be named said the number had risen from 10 pupils a day in the first lockdown to about 90 a day this week.

"We're talking just under to just over a third of the usual amount of pupils for our school here.

"The vast majority are key worker children, not vulnerable.

"I also know that other primary schools in our area have similar amounts of children in school - one neighbouring school in particular, which is only slightly larger than us, is estimating/averaging 100 to 160 children in school every day."

Geoff Barton, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, called the lack of limits "bizarre... in a week when the prime minister has told the nation that it is necessary to move schools to remote education in order to suppress coronavirus transmission".

"We are hearing reports that attendance in some primary schools is in excess of 50% because of demand from critical workers and families with children classed as vulnerable under criteria which has been significantly widened," he said.

"We are urgently seeking clarification about the maximum number who should be in school while protecting public health.

"This seems completely illogical given the fact that the government has taken the drastic action of a full national lockdown precisely in order to limit contacts."

Well that didn't take long, did it?

 

[yorkie]

Also I see a lot of parents on Facebook at the moment complaining they have 3 kids but 1 laptop which is also causing issues if they're all expected to stick to a timetable, but schools have always worked on the basis of "3 pupils to 1 computer" or similar when planning IT suites, which is now obviously a bit of an issue considering the schools have been instructed by the Government to essentially offer 1:1 remote learning!

It's been 1 to 1 at my school for years now.

Big difference from previous lockdown is that the definition of a key worker is broader and now you just need one key worker parent, not two, to get a place.

My wife claims she read somewhere that 70% of parents have tried to get their child a key worker place.

The parents WhatsApp for my daughter's class is full of parents sharing tips on how to get children in, not because they are key workers but because they are fed up with home schooling. Also a mixture of parents saying the school should do even more zoom lessons etc and parents saying they should just let the kids play and bake at home because life is too short and it won't hurt their long term development...

As a primary teacher I can tell you the 6 month school closure last year had a huge impact. Reading levels down, forgetting how to write or hold a pencil, kids regressing because their parents didn't support then or kids not being able to do anything independently and constantly needing adult support because they got so used to have a parent giving them 1:1 support.

It was a struggle after the first school closure, I'm dreading the legacy of this school closure...

This is very heartening to hear, and flies in the face of the anti-schools authoritarian brigade.

I’ve been here a while, were you a conductor?

No. Music has never been my strong point

What do you do now that places you in such a position to comment authoritatively on the education system?

I am not saying I speak authoritatively but I have worked in the education system more than any of other areas I have worked in (which includes working for the NHS)

Asking so I can clarify how well-positioned you are...you seem to generalise a lot about having “the ear” of those in education.

While I do not like to go up to random teachers and ask if they think schools should be closed or open, I do speak to a lot of school staff.

FWIW, my wife is a teacher of 20 years, union representative, also a school governor.

I am disillusioned with the unions. My union rep admitted to me that the Unions get a lot of calls from people with extreme views and that most ordinary members do not hold strong views and that there is indeed a risk that unions can end up not representing the views of the majority of their members.

Also a lot of union reps (though not in my current case) seem to be the sort of people who hold radical views. When we get the opportunity to vote for candidates in union elections most of the candidates seem to be rather whacky and unrepresentative to me.

I support the general idea of having a union but I do not trust the unions in this country.

Your comments in the past have mentioned “most teachers I’ve spoken to”, or similar.

How many do you talk to? Is it in the hundreds? Thousands?

Just curious.

Ah I can see exactly what is coming next. You are going to say your wife speaks to more teachers than I do, and therefore has a better sample size.

I will pre-empt this by pointing out that people who contact Union reps with concern over the reopening of schools are not at all representative of the majority of staff. After all if people do not have a strong objection to something they are not likely to contact their Union about it.

 

[6862]

Surge in pupils at school in lockdown sparks call for limit

With attendance as high as 50% in some areas, heads call for pupil limits in England's lockdown schools.

www.bbc.co.uk

Well that didn't take long, did it?

What a ridiculous state of affairs. A developed nation actively trying to reduce the number of children who are receiving an education.

 

[yorkie]

What a ridiculous state of affairs. A developed nation actively trying to reduce the number of children who are receiving an education.

How would they impose a limit? Who gets to decide which student takes priority?

These unions are a total disgrace and those who are egging them on are enemies of the younger generation (especially those who are disadvantaged) in my opinion.

By the way I suspect this issue is only applicable to primary schools and not secondary schools.

As a rough idea, yesterday I went into the Year 10 class and there were 5 students in the entire year in it. The Year 8 class was a similar number. But Year 7 was much higher, at a whooping 11 students. But that is still a single figure percentage.

A colleague told me the other day that there are problems with increased numbers of kids accessing drugs and that these students tend to be getting younger. I find that very worrying.

If a child comes from a well off family and has good access to computers and their parents are supportive and have the time and knowledge to help them and if the student is able to cope not seeing friends in person, then fair enough they may not be significantly disadvantaged by this situation

But the reality for many is quite different.

I've had to stop some calls short because it was clear there was mayhem going on in the background; any parent in such a position may find it difficult to cope if they are not working from home, let alone if they are supposed to work from home while also supporting their kids education.

And the other day I helped 2 boys whose single parent cannot read. I don't think the people who impose these restrictions would have wanted to be in that position for 6 months of their education, would they?

Those who want to make already disadvantaged students even more disadvantaged make me feel very, very angry.

 

[Ianno87]

What a ridiculous state of affairs. A developed nation actively trying to reduce the number of children who are receiving an education.

If there's that many kids in.... starts to beg the question as to why they all can't be in, should they/parents so choose.

 

[WelshBluebird]

And the other day I helped 2 boys whose single parent cannot read. I don't think the people who impose these restrictions would have wanted to be in that position for 6 months of their education, would they?

Of course, the reality is that those in charge probably haven't even considered the possibility of something like that being the case.

I may not agree with you on much, even in this thread and topic, but on this specific point I think it is bloody obvious that if a child's home is not a place where learning can occur then they should be able to attend school (we'd disagree on what exactly makes up that group of people though, but certainly a child whose lone parent can't read should be in school even now).

 

[The Ham]

If there's that many kids in.... starts to beg the question as to why they all can't be in, should they/parents so choose.

It depends on the area, the day before lockdown I was told of a school which didn't even have a full class worth of children in, whilst another (during lockdown) already has 25% and is expecting more. Given the location of that second school (whilst not unusual key workers are likely to be limited compared to other areas and generally below average children who need extra help) I can see how some schools could end up with 50% of children in.