Return to Education

[Yew]

Doesn't affect me, but I really would question the value of the majority of University students physically returning in the present circumstances, if so much teaching is going to be online anyway.

I was halfway through a post about the importance of seeing people, going out, joining societies, and the university experience; but then remembered that those are another collateral casualty in the campaign to conquer the cough.

 

[Ianno87]

I was halfway through a post about the importance of seeing people, going out, joining societies, and the university experience; but then remembered that those are another collateral casualty in the campaign to conquer the cough.

The only plus side would be the social aspect of being able to socialise with whoever you are bubbled with. But that *must* grate with the same people all the time (as much as you may get on with them)

 

[Richard Scott]

At my school we're still planning on opening as normal on the 11st. On the 4th we have our year 13 min for mock exams anyway and as per guidance the year 12 will be at home.

Although personally I'm expecting some fairly last minute notice that we'll shut until February. Personally it won't have much of an impact as I'm only in charge of IT and we've been up & running on Teams since September anyway and most teaching staff are comfortable using it.

Teams isn't hard to use, can't be as I can do it!! No substitute for being in a classroom, though, even if it is better than online resources.

 

[Ianno87]

Teams isn't hard to use, can't be as I can do it!! No substitute for being in a classroom, though, even if it is better than online resources.

There is part of me that says for secondary school kids, a bit of remote learning in moderation is useful life preparation for the direction that office life is going in.

Totally unsuitable for kids of primary age though.

 

[Richard Scott]

There is part of me that says for secondary school kids, a bit of remote learning in moderation is useful life preparation for the direction that office life is going in.

Totally unsuitable for kids of primary age though.

In moderation (and in very small doses) maybe but not for lengths of time that it's happening for. They need to discuss with each other and they are very reluctant to do that on Teams or other platforms.

 

[Bantamzen]

There is part of me that says for secondary school kids, a bit of remote learning in moderation is useful life preparation for the direction that office life is going in.

Totally unsuitable for kids of primary age though.

Hmm, I'm really not sure kids of that age with widespread access to various social media & networking applications need any sort of training in the use of remote conferencing software. I'd say being at school is probably more important than ever these days because kids are more likely to spend at least some of their leisure time using social media as a primary source of communication.

 

[sjpowermac]

Not looking good for schools, which is a huge shame:

England school reopening in doubt with ministers divided

Education secretary under pressure to rethink plan for millions of pupils to return

www.theguardian.com

Plans for millions of pupils in England to begin a staggered return to school from next week hang in the balance as a debate rages within the government over the risk of a surge of infections, with the NHS already buckling under the strain.

The education secretary, Gavin Williamson, is understood to be mounting a “rearguard action” against what one source described as “senior colleagues” who have been alarmed by advice that reopening schools will make it impossible to keep the R rate below one.

 

[farleigh]

I work in a very challenging school and - believe me - it is tempting to be selfish and wish for an extended break.

However, it would be wrong.

Many of the pupils had been hugely affected by the first lockdown and now they need to be at school. Fanciful notions of them studying remotely are lovely but naive. Many of these pupils do not have access to suitable workspaces, far less the support at home to make a decent go of it.

If we close schools we will once again be neglecting the needs of the most vulnerable children.

 

[Richard Scott]

I work in a very challenging school and - believe me - it is tempting to be selfish and wish for an extended break.

However, it would be wrong.

Many of the pupils had been hugely affected by the first lockdown and now they need to be at school. Fanciful notions of them studying remotely are lovely but naive. Many of these pupils do not have access to suitable workspaces, far less the support at home to make a decent go of it.

If we close schools we will once again be neglecting the needs of the most vulnerable children.

A lot of pupils irrespective of background struggle with blended learning. Many don't have sufficient devices to be able to access work and their mental well-being has already been seriously affected in some cases.

 

[BJames]

Hmm, I'm really not sure kids of that age with widespread access to various social media & networking applications need any sort of training in the use of remote conferencing software. I'd say being at school is probably more important than ever these days because kids are more likely to spend at least some of their leisure time using social media as a primary source of communication.

Agreed 100%.

I know "the science is evolving" etc etc is being pushed around a lot but the fact of the matter is that schools need to be open. I saw that one of the members of Independent Sage was saying earlier that :

Schools should remain closed until buildings are made as safe as possible for pupils and staff. This includes smaller class sizes (achieved through hiring extra teachers and teaching rooms), adequate ventilation and free masks for all pupils.

This is a quote from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/28/covid-vaccine-uk-restrictions-independent-sage and the lack of awareness of life in general is mindblowing, even just from this one comment. Achieved through hiring extra teachers and teaching rooms? Where on earth is he expecting these to be pulled out of?

Free masks for all pupils? I can confirm through my University that the study building I use is patrolled by security staff a few times a day, usually every half hour in the morning for a couple hours then in the afternoon for a couple of hours. They come and tell everyone to put their masks on, and everyone does, and then as soon as they leave, the masks come off again, because the seats are two metres away so there's no real issue. But anyway...

And most importantly, how long would this take? "until buildings are made as safe as possible" could take so long that the vaccine(s) will have been rolled out in force, and all this extra hiring and accumulation of property (which would be necessary unless classrooms can just be created out of thin air) would be a complete waste of time and money.

 

[Steam Man]

Will it include colleges as well

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Will it include colleges as well

Nobody knows, is the most appropriate answer.

If you asked 5 members of the cabinet you'd probably get 5 different answers!

 

[sjpowermac]

Nobody knows, is the most appropriate answer.

If you asked 5 members of the cabinet you'd probably get 5 different answers!

It seems a fudged start may be the order of the day:

English secondary schools unlikely to fully open until mid-January at earliest

Ministers thrash out new plans including staff being given high priority for Covid vaccinations

www.theguardian.com

For the week beginning 11 January, those taking exams, mainly years 11 and 13, would be allowed back in the classroom while others were taught remotely, followed by all year groups returning in person from 18 January.

I suspect that announcing mass testing the day before the Christmas holidays wasn’t the best piece of planning on the part of the government.

I have a sinking feeling that we might end up with just exam classes in school for quite some time, or worse, no classes at all

 

[Ianno87]

I work in a very challenging school and - believe me - it is tempting to be selfish and wish for an extended break.

However, it would be wrong.

Many of the pupils had been hugely affected by the first lockdown and now they need to be at school. Fanciful notions of them studying remotely are lovely but naive. Many of these pupils do not have access to suitable workspaces, far less the support at home to make a decent go of it.

If we close schools we will once again be neglecting the needs of the most vulnerable children.

Agree.

Perhaps there's a compromise position whereby return to school happens, but on condition that families/family bubbles effectively self-isolate as far as practicable outside of school, to contain onward transmission.

 

[yorkie]

It seems a fudged start may be the order of the day:

English secondary schools unlikely to fully open until mid-January at earliest

Ministers thrash out new plans including staff being given high priority for Covid vaccinations

www.theguardian.com

I suspect that announcing mass testing the day before the Christmas holidays wasn’t the best piece of planning on the part of the government.

I feared this would happen.

I also suspected (and told a few people this on recent walks with other forum members) that there was a possibility school staff (along with NHS staff and perhaps police etc) may be prioritised for the vaccine and it looks like that may happen. Of course, this is reliant on the Oxford vaccine being approved soon, which it sounds like it will (see separate thread for that)

I have a sinking feeling that we might end up with just exam classes in school for quite some time, or worse, no classes at all

The lockdown enthusiast brigade, having seemingly achieved their aim of closing schools for now, will heap on the pressure to keep them closed as long as possible.

The article says:

Vulnerable secondary-aged children and children of key workers would be able to return to school from 4 January, regardless of year group.

But the definition of "vulnerable" is unclear; during the first lockdown the number of students who are disadvantaged who were able to be in school was very small, and a significant number of students feel behind massively. I think the sort of people who advocate lockdowns have absolutely no idea how damaging this is for the education of many children.

 

[sjpowermac]

I feared this would happen.

I also suspected (and told a few people this on recent walks with other forum members) that there was a possibility school staff (along with NHS staff and perhaps police etc) may be prioritised for the vaccine and it looks like that may happen. Of course, this is reliant on the Oxford vaccine being approved soon, which it sounds like it will (see separate thread for that)


The lockdown enthusiast brigade, having seemingly achieved their aim of closing schools for now, will heap on the pressure to keep them closed as long as possible.

The article says:

But the definition of "vulnerable" is unclear; during the first lockdown the number of students who are disadvantaged who were able to be in school was very small, and a significant number of students feel behind massively. I think the sort of people who advocate lockdowns have absolutely no idea how damaging this is for the education of many children.

I agree with all you have put there and as I mentioned, have a strong suspicion that the dates quoted might be over optimistic?

The one positive I note is the link with setting up virus testing in schools, it was always hard to see that the first week back would be long enough for that, but with help from the army then maybe that will be achieved by mid-January.

For a government intent on ‘levelling up’ closing schools completely and as you mentioned disadvantaging those most in need, seems a very odd idea. I do wonder though if there is information about the role that schools have played in the spread of infections that we don’t have access to?

Regarding vulnerable children, again, I couldn’t agree more and hope that the definition is much broader this time. I’m not sure what happened in the schools you know of, but at my school from May onwards there was a considerable uplift in numbers attending but that was still no more than about 5% of the school population.

 

[chris11256]

Looks like my job next week will be to finish off the batch of 77 laptops we ordered for students who have no device to use. For some reason the government has excluded FE(we're a 16-19 sixth form), so despite having a lot of students without a device in the house who would otherwise be eligible, we couldn't apply through the government scheme and had to go round asking for external donations to allow us to purchase devices.

 

[sjpowermac]

Looks like my job next week will be to finish off the batch of 77 laptops we ordered for students who have no device to use. For some reason the government has excluded FE(we're a 16-19 sixth form), so despite having a lot of students without a device in the house who would otherwise be eligible, we couldn't apply through the government scheme and had to go round asking for external donations to allow us to purchase devices.

Best wishes for your work with that

It’s absolutely terrible that FE has been excluded from the government scheme.

 

[3rd rail land]

Looks like my job next week will be to finish off the batch of 77 laptops we ordered for students who have no device to use. For some reason the government has excluded FE(we're a 16-19 sixth form), so despite having a lot of students without a device in the house who would otherwise be eligible, we couldn't apply through the government scheme and had to go round asking for external donations to allow us to purchase devices.

That's a lot of laptops to build. I've built/imaged countless computers over the years but never such a large quantity in one go. Its awful your employer had to go asking for donations to pay for the laptops. The government ordered remote education so they should be paying for equipment needed to facilitate this. Not all parents can afford to buy a suitable device for each of their kids. I am actually looking to replace an aging tablet and Ultrabook with a Surface Pro and even a lower end one was £750 and that's without any of the accessories. If a family consists of 2-3 kids that's £1500 -2250 they would have to find to pay for the devices. Not a small amount of money at all! Sure there are cheaper devices out there but simply not viable for some families.

 

[chris11256]

That's a lot of laptops to build. I've built/imaged countless computers over the years but never such a large quantity in one go. Its awful your employer had to go asking for donations to pay for the laptops. The government ordered remote education so they should be paying for equipment needed to facilitate this. Not all parents can afford to buy a suitable device for each of their kids.

Thankfully my technician managed to get them all imaged just before we closed for Christmas. Just need to go through applying Windows/Office updates and configuring the VPN client to work/popup before login.

 

[3rd rail land]

Thankfully my technician managed to get them all imaged just before we closed for Christmas. Just need to go through applying Windows/Office updates and configuring the VPN client to work/popup before login.

I'm glad I am not your technician. Imaging and configuring devices gets tedious after a while as its such a repetitive task. Designing and testing the image is where the interesting work is.

 

[yorkie]

Regarding vulnerable children, again, I couldn’t agree more and hope that the definition is much broader this time. I’m not sure what happened in the schools you know of, but at my school from May onwards there was a considerable uplift in numbers attending but that was still no more than about 5% of the school population.

Similar here but less than 2% even in May. Maybe more will qualify under the new rules.

That's a lot of laptops to build. I've built/imaged countless computers over the years but never such a large quantity in one go. Its awful your employer had to go asking for donations to pay for the laptops. The government ordered remote education so they should be paying for equipment needed to facilitate this. Not all parents can afford to buy a suitable device for each of their kids.

If all devices are of the same type and are managed, it's not too bad.

But also there are issues relating to safeguarding to consider, such as web filtering.

Furthermore, if students are not going back, there is also the problem of arranging either delivery or collection. Then, when they get the device, you have to hope they know how to log onto it (to be fair this will generally not be a problem, but it might be in, in some cases).

If students do not have internet access at home, this causes further complications.

 

[3rd rail land]

If all devices are of the same type and are managed, it's not too bad.

But also there are issues relating to safeguarding to consider, such as web filtering.

Furthermore, if students are not going back, there is also the problem of arranging either delivery or collection. Then, when they get the device, you have to hope they know how to log onto it (to be fair this will generally not be a problem, but it might be in, in some cases).

If students do not have internet access at home, this causes further complications.

I work in IT and have experienced all the scenarios you describe albeit not in the education sector. I hope my days of imaging devices is over. I've done enough of it to last me a lifetime.

 

[chris11256]

Similar here but less than 2% even in May. Maybe more will qualify under the new rules.

If all devices are of the same type and are managed, it's not too bad.

But also there are issues relating to safeguarding to consider, such as web filtering.

Furthermore, if students are not going back, there is also the problem of arranging either delivery or collection. Then, when they get the device, you have to hope they know how to log onto it (to be fair this will generally not be a problem, but it might be in, in some cases).

If students do not have internet access at home, this causes further complications.

They're all bog standard Dell laptops. Just set them all up in our IT Suite & we can get 26 imaging in one go, they're done within 45 minutes so can then move on to the next 26.

In our case I'm setting them all up on a VPN back to our network. So for students they look like any other on site laptop they might use, they just login with their usual school username & password. Only caveat which we're adding to a guide is that they need to connect to the VPN once the laptop has booted up, but before login. This ensures they're fully web filtered(the VPN client forbids access to the local wifi network) and have all the usual software that they'd use.

At this point we can't deliver 77 laptops, so they'll all have to come to reception on site and collect one.

 

[3rd rail land]

They're all bog standard Dell laptops. Just set them all up in our IT Suite & we can get 26 imaging in one go, they're done within 45 minutes so can then move on to the next 26.

In our case I'm setting them all up on a VPN back to our network. So for students they look like any other on site laptop they might use, they just login with their usual school username & password. Only caveat which we're adding to a guide is that they need to connect to the VPN once the laptop has booted up, but before login. This ensures they're fully web filtered and have all the usual software that they'd use.

At this point we can't deliver 77 laptops, so they'll all have to come to reception on site and collect one.

I wish I had a dedicated area whenever I've built laptops. Best I've ever had is a desk with a 24 port switch where I can squeeze maybe 8 laptops onto the desk. Desktops are worse as I have to find power sockets for the tower(s) and the monitor(s).

 

[sjpowermac]

The lockdown enthusiast brigade, having seemingly achieved their aim of closing schools for now, will heap on the pressure to keep them closed as long as possible.

Please don’t take this as contradicting what you’ve put, but I’m genuinely interested in who are the lockdown enthusiasts are with regard to schools?

I know that the unions have made some noises (I genuinely wish they would just shut up) but as you will know, the government takes little, if any notice of them.

Regarding teachers themselves, I know this is only circumstantial, but I didn’t hear any colleagues complaining last term about being back or wanting schools to close.

At the end of July I made phone calls home to parents of children in my form group in order to let them know the final arrangements for the Autumn and to try and help resolve any questions they had. Not one parent raised any objections to schools reopening.

I had contact with about 90 parents during the term due to virtual parents evenings and many gave thanks for the work the school was doing and expressed relief that their children were back.

I don’t really ‘do’ social media other than for railways, so perhaps I’m missing something?

 

[yorkie]

Please don’t take this as contradicting what you’ve put, but I’m genuinely interested in who are the lockdown enthusiasts are with regard to schools?

People who are vocal on social media; they may claim to be teachers, or students, or parents, but there is no way to be sure.

They tend to follow each other, 'like' each others tweets/posts, and refer to people who want to keep schools open as a variety of names, such as 'murderers' or 'fascists'.

They are currently using the hashtag "CloseSchoolsNOW" on Twitter.

I know that the unions have made some noises (I genuinely wish they would just shut up) but as you will know, the government takes little, if any notice of them.

Yes the Unions don't truly represent their members. My Union rep admitted that the people who tend to be contacting the Union are the vocal ones who do not necessarily share the same view as the majority and she also admitted the Union is swayed by them. I think the sort of people who lead the Unions are also a particular type of person that is not really compatible with modern day ways of thinking.

Regarding teachers themselves, I know this is only circumstantial, but I didn’t hear any colleagues complaining last term about being back or wanting schools to close.

I've got a few colleagues who have expressed a preference to close schools.

One thing that I think really helped us was that everyone has either been asymptomatic or had very mild illness, and the only person I know of to be seriously ill (hospitalised and placed in a Covid ward, no less) tested negative for Covid and positive for Rhinovirus. I've known several other colleagues be genuinely ill, but all tested negative for Coronavirus. We've also seen the huge negative impact it's had on students, especially those who are disadvantaged.

As this has dragged on and on, even those colleagues who were keen for schools to close are generally accepting now that it's not the best course of action.

I do know of a colleague who was initially not happy to be back at school and we first came back he was very keen for everyone to stay 2m from him. He says his fears were purely due to the worry that if he got it he'd pass it onto his Dad. But now, he will come well within 2m of me to have a conversation with me. So clearly his view is changing.

The vast majority do appear to think it is right that schools open (though I cannot be certain as, tempting as it is, I daren't go round asking everyone!) but several are unhappy at how onerous the new rules are and how some of the protocols generate a lot of extra work for staff.

At the end of July I made phone calls home to parents of children in my form group in order to let them know the final arrangements for the Autumn and to try and help resolve any questions they had. Not one parent raised any objections to schools reopening.

I'm aware of a very small proportion of parents being initially unhappy, but even they are now sending their children into school.

I had contact with about 90 parents during the term due to virtual parents evenings and many gave thanks for the work the school was doing and expressed relief that their children were back.

Yes this is the view of the vast majority of parents.

I don’t really ‘do’ social media other than for railways, so perhaps I’m missing something?

I really would avoid it!

Here are some examples of complete strawman arguments, to give you an idea:

https://twitter.com/dioramick/status/1343943859156488193

“children need the structure of schools!” they also need living parents and teachers #CloseSchoolsNOW

https://twitter.com/KatyJayne101/status/1343967019931152388

MPs are staying at home for a further week yet hypocritically expect teachers and pupils to return to potentially unsafe environments. How can the impact of a temporary closure of schools compare to the impact of a child losing a family member to covid? #CloseSchoolsNOW

https://twitter.com/OfSelina/status/1343914044407902209

Those arguing for schools to open have suddenly had a new found concern for children’s mental health They have been notably absence during the years of underfunding of CAMHS. I think they were too busy calling kids ‘snowflakes’ #CloseSchoolsNOW

Such people may only represent 1% of the population. The problem is that if just 1% of people are this weird, that's 666,000 weirdos, and if just 5% of them are on Twitter, that's over 33k vocal nutcases dishing out loads of rubbish, using hashtags that are then propagated to all users, and making them believe that they are somehow representative of the population at large.

That last one had 2.6K likes, demonstrating how there are thousands of idiots out there, but in some positive news, it did generate some sensible responses:

https://twitter.com/Never2old2teach/status/1343989457582776323

What a dreadful assumption. I am and always have been concerned about the mental health and well-being of children and have, in my role, worked with CAMHS many times. The safest place for children is school especially after a 2 week break when many of will have had a tough time.

https://twitter.com/JackUTD2002/status/1343946468604977153

Nah I'd like mine open thanks. If schools were having a major affect then cases would be falling over Christmas. My college shut a week early, has been shut for nearly 3 weeks and yet cases in our area are still rising dramatically.

https://twitter.com/claraclem72/status/1343988694462717952

I want schools to stay open. I am a teacher. I have not been silent over underfunding of CAMHS. I have never referred to kids as ‘snowflakes’ I know it’s Twitter so there’s not an ounce of nuance available but not everyone thinks the same.

https://twitter.com/JenLetchford/status/1343977856024645636

Kids have one shot at school & for some remote learning doesn’t work. They are getting further & further behind. We are condemning those kids to failure. Are the government going to give them an extra school year to catch up when this is all done? Or dump them on the scrap heap

https://twitter.com/OfSelina/status/1343914044407902209

I have never been so offended tbh, I am autistic and suffered under the underfunding of CAMHS for around 9 years. You don’t have the faintest clue how closing schools would affect people like me up and down the country. In the first lockdown I wanted to kill myself soon into it.

I feel proud of those people standing up against such idiocy.

I will get involved in some arguments because I can't feel that people shouldn't be able to get away with saying such rubbish. But in all honesty it's a waste of time. If you've not registered on Twitter, I really would stay away!

 

[alex397]

Hopefully this is the most appropriate place to post this, but could be a bit difficult for some secondary school students to reach their school by Arriva bus in Kent.
They have announced that a school holiday timetable will run until further notice. See tweet from Arriva Kent & Medway

Emergency Timetable Changes

Due to increased staff absence all services in Kent will run school holiday timetables from 3rd January 2021 until further notice.

Dedicated school buses (services with “S”) or journeys that run during the school term will not run as a result.

Presumably many pupils will be unaffected, but there are of course many dedicated school routes which follow unique routes.

 

[sjpowermac]

People who are vocal on social media; they may claim to be teachers, or students, or parents, but there is no way to be sure.

Many thanks for the reply. My word, some of those examples that you quoted are absolutely bonkers!

I really don’t know though how much notice the government take of the lunatic fringes of social media.

I do worry though that schools won’t reopen much before the February half term or even until after then.

I think the government have been blindsided by the new strain of the virus and have not really got a proper handle on things. It’s difficult to see how the situation that’s currently playing out with the hospitals in London won’t be all over the country within a couple of weeks.

Regarding the lateral flow testing in schools, I think that might prove harder to set up than many suppose, despite the government saying DBS checks can be waived. I’d guess if schools were to use additional staff, the most likely people would be exam invigilators, but given their age profile (my school might not be representative) I’m not sure it’s such an attractive offer for them.

It will be interesting to see what help the army offer, I suspect this might be a project that they regret getting involved with!

Just on a technical point, how accurate are the tests and do they pick up the new strain of the virus? I ask this not out of any personal concern for health, but if the answers are ‘not very’ and/or ‘dunno’ then the mass testing wouldn’t see like the moonshot it’s being portrayed as.

None of the above is me arguing against schools re-opening, I’ll be absolutely gutted if they don’t, but I’m just trying to look at things that might contribute to that decision.

 

[bramling]

It seems a fudged start may be the order of the day:

English secondary schools unlikely to fully open until mid-January at earliest

Ministers thrash out new plans including staff being given high priority for Covid vaccinations

www.theguardian.com

I suspect that announcing mass testing the day before the Christmas holidays wasn’t the best piece of planning on the part of the government.

I have a sinking feeling that we might end up with just exam classes in school for quite some time, or worse, no classes at all

I reckon it's not a bad bet to say the schools will end up being closed until the first half term, and quite possibly for the whole spring term.

I completely agree with the majority view on here that this is the wrong thing to happen.