Returns on a loop

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heart-of-wessex

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hi all,

Just wondering, say for some reason (mainly someone like me wanting to higlight the line or some basher or whatever) wanted to do the Waterloo loop, can you actually buy a return from London Waterloo - London Waterloo going on the loop trains via Richmond and Teddington?


Cheers,
James.
 
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Sprinter

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It is indeed possible, but ask for a ticket to the outermost station on the loop. Like for the Kingston loop ask for a CDR to "Strawberry Hill" this is valid via Richmond and via Kingston, allowing you to complete the loop on one ticket.
 

joy54.gen

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It is actually better to buy it to the nearest place to London on the loop as this would be the cheapest, and it would be valid as it takes the direct trains rule.
 

yorkie

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joy54 said:
It is actually better to buy it to the nearest place to London on the loop as this would be the cheapest, and it would be valid as it takes the direct trains rule.
True, providing you don't get off, but what isn't clear is this:-

Does the train just have to be timetabled to be a through train OR does it have to be advertised as such?

ie. if a train is only advertised to a certain point, and you only know it's a through train because you've looked it up in the NRT, is it valid or not? it's not really made clear. Also, does this ignore the 'no doubling back' rule?

Taking it to extremes, there could be a case for using a Waterloo-Clapham ticket around the loop, however that would seem ridiculous and you'd almost certainly be liable to be penalty fared for that, I would have thought!

Of course you must not get off at an intermediate station[1]. An example of this is Peterborough-London via Ipswich, you cannot use a London-Peterborough train and get off at Ipswich to save money. (GNER priced fares are cheaper than 'one' priced fares[2]).

[1] While on a route that is otherwise invalid.
[2] It's cheaper to do London-Peterborough (76 miles direct) - and even London-Grantham (106 miles) - than London-Ipswich (only 69 miles), and that's for a much faster and more frequent service!!! Note: I am comparing the cheapest walk-on off-peak 'Any permitted' return fare.
 

Techniquest

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Regarding the loop ticket thing, I'd imagine the same thing there, a Waterloo to CJ CDR wouldn't be seen as valid by most conductors. Like the Strawberry Hill loop, I'd just buy a return to Strawberry Hill and be done with it (assuming it's outside the TC limits), no-one can complain then, plus if I was getting bored of box machines, I could alight at Strawberry Hill!
 

Coxster

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yorkie said:
joy54 said:
It is actually better to buy it to the nearest place to London on the loop as this would be the cheapest, and it would be valid as it takes the direct trains rule.
True, providing you don't get off, but what isn't clear is this:-

Does the train just have to be timetabled to be a through train OR does it have to be advertised as such?

ie. if a train is only advertised to a certain point, and you only know it's a through train because you've looked it up in the NRT, is it valid or not? it's not really made clear. Also, does this ignore the 'no doubling back' rule?

Taking it to extremes, there could be a case for using a Waterloo-Clapham ticket around the loop, however that would seem ridiculous and you'd almost certainly be liable to be penalty fared for that, I would have thought!

Of course you must not get off at an intermediate station[1]. An example of this is Peterborough-London via Ipswich, you cannot use a London-Peterborough train and get off at Ipswich to save money. (GNER priced fares are cheaper than 'one' priced fares[2]).

[1] While on a route that is otherwise invalid.
[2] It's cheaper to do London-Peterborough (76 miles direct) - and even London-Grantham (106 miles) - than London-Ipswich (only 69 miles), and that's for a much faster and more frequent service!!! Note: I am comparing the cheapest walk-on off-peak 'Any permitted' return fare.
If you look at say 'Live Departure Boards', it advertises the train as doing a circuit, not as only going to one particular place (like the Portsmouth via Eastleigh is only advertised as Cosham).
 

yorkie

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Coxster said:
If you look at say 'Live Departure Boards', it advertises the train as doing a circuit, not as only going to one particular place (like the Portsmouth via Eastleigh is only advertised as Cosham).
True but that goes by the WTT (working timetable), it's not advertised to Waterloo at Waterloo or Clapham. I actually have no idea at what point it does become advertised as being to Waterloo though.

But the question about through trains being always valid could be worded as this:

Q: For the purposes of ticketing & the routeing guide, is it acceptable to take a train that is listed in the WTT as being direct, regardless of the fact it takes an otherwise invalid route, or does the train have to be advertised as being direct?

I don't have the answer to that.

Another way of looking at it is this:

York-Leeds via Harrogate trains are only advertised as far as Burley Park, this is to avoid passengers for Leeds getting on the train in error. it used to be an invalid route, but since privatisation it was decided to make it a permitted route. So, prior to privatisation through trains that were NOT advertised were NOT necessarily valid. So has that changed? Or is this service not considered a 'through' service and is only valid because the ROUTE is permitted?

Again, I don't have the answer.

Hopefully someone will :)
 

Techniquest

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Ah yes, the York to Leeds via Harrogate thing. I recall seeing it advertised as going to Burley Park, double-checked with Northern staff to ensure it did go to Leeds, it being confirmed of course. I did assume it was to avoid confusion with passengers wanting a fast service to Leeds or whatever, I had wanted to make sure.

Very scenic line, btw. If you've not done it, I recommend it on a sunny morning, like I did on the 0845 off York! Even on a 150/2 it's not actually too bad. It's great if you need to highlight the route as travelled on, naturally if you're in a hurry you'd be screwed over!

Oh, and yes, I have actually been to York. Yes, I was actually excited about seeing GNER stock at that time. And just in case you're wondering how I got there, I got the 07xx GNER HST from Leeds!
 

Simming

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IIRC The Train That Goes from Hudderfield To Leeds Via Brighouse and Bradford Interchange is only advertised to Pudsey. Ive only done therer services on a Rover, so I dont know whether I do it with a Normal Ticket
 

clagmonster

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At Leeds, the Huddersfield via Bradford Exchange services are advertised as Brighouse terminators. The York via Harrogate services are advertised as Poppleton services.

I've seen Hounslow loop services (clockwise), being advertised as Waterloo services at St. Margarets before, don't know about before that point.
 
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