Revenue Division amongst companies

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by district, 28 Nov 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. district

    district Member

    Messages:
    963
    Joined:
    4 Aug 2011
    Location:
    SE16
    If train operating company 1 runs a railway service from A to F and train operating company 2 runs a railway service from C to D and a customer buys a ticket from A to F routed 'Any Route Permitted' then how would Rail Settlement Plan Ltd. divide up the revenue?

    District
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,898
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    Confidentially :)

    TOC 2 would get a portion of the revenue, but likely very small.
     
  4. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,244
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    There is a system called ORCATS which essentially divides up the fares based on the percentage of passengers using each service. It's an automatic system which has been around since the dawn of privatisation.
     
  5. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    39,228
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    See Orcats.

    However, it's worth bearing in mind that revenue allocation does not in any way determine validity (despite some people - not on this forum - claiming it does).
     
  6. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

    Messages:
    4,889
    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Location:
    Hampshire
    One thing we can assume though is that if it is a TOC specific fare i.e. LM only then LM would receive 100% of the revenue.
     
  7. Simon11

    Simon11 Member

    Messages:
    1,001
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2010
    Well nit picking, not if it was sold by another toc as they would receive commission.


     
  8. blacknight

    blacknight Member

    Messages:
    543
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2009
    Location:
    Crow Park
    I was told that was reason why GNER used hand written excess fares ticket books instead of portable ticket issuing machines, as GNER could then keep all of the pie to themselves.
     
  9. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,287
    Joined:
    23 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Dundee
    Is there some sense of probability used when allocating monies?

    For instance, Dundee-Glasgow "Any Permitted" is valid via Haymarket, which means East Coast and CrossCountry as well as ScotRail come in on the act. But I'm pretty sure the vast, vast majority of people go via Perth, i.e. it's possible that there will be passengers for Glasgow on an EC/XC service, but not probable.
     
  10. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

    Messages:
    1,515
    Joined:
    8 Mar 2011
    How does revenue get divided up in the Oyster system?

    Say if a route was clearly only run by one TOC, for arguments sake, Surbiton to London Waterloo, with SWT running this route. The Oyster single is £3.20 (or £5.20 at Oyster Peak times).
    Does SWT get 100% of this revenue, or does TFL get a certain percentage, or even do other TOC's get a split of the revenue too?

    It's something that's been in my mind for a while so it'd be great to find out what the case is! :)
     
  11. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    18,221
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    Oyster PAYG really ought to allow more accurate fare apportionment, because if used correctly it records the exact end points of the route.

    The paper equivalent single or return would be sold to London Terminals and would have to be shared with at least SN, for people heading to Waterloo or Victoria

    Travelcard seasons on paper must still need to be divvied up subject to survey results, but as they move towards 100% barriers within the zones I expect they'll end up with far more accurate information on Oyster loaded travelcards as well.
     
  12. johnnyp_360

    johnnyp_360 Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    23 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Soham, Ely
    This may seem like a silly question to you guys, I'm just interested how this works.
    If I travel from Ely to Cambridge, I have a choice of three TOCs. First Capital Connect, National Express East Anglia or Cross Country.
    Another example, if I travelled a slightly longer distance like Ely to Norwich, I can use NXEA of East Midlands Trains.
    Just out of curiosity, how is decided which TOC gets the money from my ticket?
     
  13. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    39,228
    Joined:
    6 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Through a system called ORCATS.
    The actual figures are considered 'commercially sensitive information', so we can only guess unfortunately.
     
  14. Kier

    Kier Member

    Messages:
    60
    Joined:
    27 Aug 2011
    How is it split between different operators?

    For example, my regular journey from Beeston to Leeds could see me travelling with XC via Derby all the way, EM via Derby then Northern from Sheffield or EM then Northern via Nottingham and there are probably more combinations.

    Who gets the fare? How is it split as there is no way of telling which route I will be using as I think I have used all the combinations at some point!
     
  15. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

    Messages:
    3,420
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2009
    Location:
    Liverpool
  16. thedbdiboy

    thedbdiboy Member

    Messages:
    401
    Joined:
    10 Sep 2011
    Interavailable tickets are allocated using a computer modelling program called ORCATS that was originally developed by BR. It's the reason why the words 'Rail Settlement Plan' are printed in the background of your ticket - the money from ticket sales goes to them (they are part of ATOC) and it is they that allocate the money to operators.
     
  17. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

    Messages:
    12,016
    Joined:
    22 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Mold, Clwyd
    The split is said to be in proportion to the predicted number of passengers on each route, based on computer modelling of passenger psychology.
    For instance if you buy an Any Permitted ticket from Birmingham to London, most of the money will go to Virgin even if you travel via Chiltern or London Midland, or even XC/FGW, because Virgin have the fastest trains and highest capacity.
    On the same line of route (say Crewe-Manchester with VT, AW, NT and the odd XC) I assume there is a split based on seats provided or number of trains.
    I assume the ORCATS formula is revised periodically to take account of service changes, or there would be no incentive to improve them.

    You can see why TOCs are not keen on interavailable tickets, and yet they give the passenger valuable flexibility and choice.
    Rovers and Rangers are another nightmare, as apart from the area and place of purchase, the TOCs have no idea where you have been or which routes you have taken. Maybe the local TOC takes all the money.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page