Revenue protection on St Ives Branch

[Rob F]

Just got back from two weeks staying in Carbis Bay. We used the train quite a bit while we were there and the lack of revenue protection on the line is quite eye opening.

We regularly travelled into St Ives in the evening and 20+ people doing the same thing would regularly join the train at Carbis Bay. There is a ticket machine in the car park but it is hidden away beyond the ramp to the platform, has no signage and cannot produce tickets for people with railcards so was of no use to us. We never saw anyone else use it. On all the the journeys we made the conductor did not appear once it just seems that people in Carbis Bay assume the train is free as no one ever attempts to sell them a ticket. I know the stations are close together but surely some attempt at revenue protection should be made? The ticket machine at St Ives was always out of order.

One evening we boarded at the door the conductor was operating but she just disappeared towards the back cab and was not seen again. Although the usage statistics for this line are impressive they must underestimate the actual numbers as there is a lot of ticketless travel.

Even during the day we had journeys without ticket checks and the one time we did see the conductor was on an early train heading for a day out in Plymouth and it seems we were sold an invalid ticket as we were sold an off peak return outside of its hours of validity. The CrossCountry train manager on the train from St Erth spotted the error but was understanding and did not surcharge us.

 

[Master29]

Gwr probably go by the fact most line users would be on the mainline services and so have had their tickets checked. I haven`t been on it recently but I always recall a train manager on the services. Maybe a more recent development.

 

[alistairlees]

In June 2016 I walked from st ives to Carbis Bay one morning to catch a train back at lunch time. There were four of us. There was a GWR staff member in a hut in the car park / adjacent to the platform who sold us group tickets quite efficiently. He was selling to other people too. Probably just a day time thing though.

 

[4141]

In June 2016 I walked from st ives to Carbis Bay one morning to catch a train back at lunch time. There were four of us. There was a GWR staff member in a hut in the car park / adjacent to the platform who sold us group tickets quite efficiently. He was selling to other people too. Probably just a day time thing though.

Likewise, the last time I used it, in 2017, there were two staff collecting and checking tickets on leaving the train at St Ives.

 

[iainbhx]

Likewise, the last time I used it, in 2017, there were two staff collecting and checking tickets on leaving the train at St Ives.

When I used it back in July, there were two staff doing the same at St Ives both on entry and exit to the station. 2 2-coach 150's and they were fairly rammed going to St Ives, less so coming back but I was probably departing a little early as I was travelling back to Torquay.

 

[alangla]

Same when I was last in St Ives in 2016. I thought the average journey was so short & the percentage of passengers heading for St Ives was such that barriering that station was more effective than attempting to get comprehensive revenue inspection done on the train.

EDIT - is there still the warning on the fence outside the station about the super aggressive seagulls?

 

[Kite159]

When I visited Lelant Saltings last year, there were a couple members of staff at the entrance of the platform selling/checking tickets.

Probably not enough time between station calls for the guard to do tickets, as turnarounds can be tight. Maybe a job for an assistant ticket examiner.

 

[yorkie]

Even during the day we had journeys without ticket checks and the one time we did see the conductor was on an early train heading for a day out in Plymouth and it seems we were sold an invalid ticket as we were sold an off peak return outside of its hours of validity. The CrossCountry train manager on the train from St Erth spotted the error but was understanding and did not surcharge us.

They were not allowed to surcharge you; you entered into a contract and paid the price you were asked to pay. If a ticket is sold in conjunction with an itinerary (either a printed one for future travel or on board the train for immediate travel) then that itinerary has to be offered at the price paid. If any company has a problem with the actions of staff at another company, this is an internal rail industry matter and there are procedures to deal with that.

 

[Oliver]

A day return from Hayle to St Ives costs £3.90 while a day return from either St Erth or Lelant (any) to St Ives costs £4.00. I think this is due to an agreement about how the P&R is funded. If you board a train at Lelant the conductor will offer you the £4.00 ticket, though if you ask from one from Hayle they'll sell you the £3.90 one.

 

[Parallel]

When I last used the line last year, there were GWR staff on the platform checking tickets at St Ives, as well as the ‘travel centre’ selling tickets. There were also 2 members of staff selling and checking tickets at Lelant Saltings. My ticket also got checked by a ticket examiner on board! I’d agree though, not much time between Carbis Bay and St Ives.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Gwr probably go by the fact most line users would be on the mainline services and so have had their tickets checked. I haven`t been on it recently but I always recall a train manager on the services. Maybe a more recent development.

Most line usage is park and ride based (and GWR know it.)

 

[RPI]

Gwr probably go by the fact most line users would be on the mainline services and so have had their tickets checked. I haven`t been on it recently but I always recall a train manager on the services. Maybe a more recent development.

Bear in mind I have first hand experience of working on the line, the vast majority of passengers are park and ride or from Carbis Bay, if say the percentage of journeys from the mainline is quite low, and of those from the mainline most are from local stations in Cornwall where the revenue could be at risk

 

[paul1609]

Most line usage is park and ride based (and GWR know it.)

Really? I walked through the Park and Ride Car Park at Lelant in April as part of my Lands End to John o' Groats walk and it appeared to be more or less disused. I appreciate it was prior to the start of the season but it didn't appear to have had much use in many years. In fact I formed the opinion it had probably been a good idea that had never taken off. much of the entrance seems to have been taken for housing.

 

[Sleepy]

Really? I walked through the Park and Ride Car Park at Lelant in April as part of my Lands End to John o' Groats walk and it appeared to be more or less disused. I appreciate it was prior to the start of the season but it didn't appear to have had much use in many years. In fact I formed the opinion it had probably been a good idea that had never taken off. much of the entrance seems to have been taken for housing.

This would be because the Park and Ride was about to move to a new home at St Erth which has had a large expenditure on it. The original site was in situ long before the new housing which was built on an old children's amusement park. I'm sure First Kernow bus drivers loved driving double deckers through the narrow housing estate roads in May when the line between Saltings and St Erth was suspended for platform work at St Erth.

 

[Rob F]

They were not allowed to surcharge you; you entered into a contract and paid the price you were asked to pay. If a ticket is sold in conjunction with an itinerary (either a printed one for future travel or on board the train for immediate travel) then that itinerary has to be offered at the price paid. If any company has a problem with the actions of staff at another company, this is an internal rail industry matter and there are procedures to deal with that.

Thanks, I didn’t know that.

 

[paul1609]

This would be because the Park and Ride was about to move to a new home at St Erth which has had a large expenditure on it. The original site was in situ long before the new housing which was built on an old children's amusement park.

that would make sense!

 

[Deafdoggie]

Really? I walked through the Park and Ride Car Park at Lelant in April as part of my Lands End to John o' Groats walk and it appeared to be more or less disused. I appreciate it was prior to the start of the season but it didn't appear to have had much use in many years. In fact I formed the opinion it had probably been a good idea that had never taken off. much of the entrance seems to have been taken for housing.

It is immensely popular. Lelant Saltings is probably the busiest station on the line. Or at least it was till St Erth Park and Ride took over.

 

[Geoff DC]

I think there is only one train a day now that stops at Lelant Saltings now that the St Erth Park & Ride is fully functional

 

[bramling]

It is immensely popular. Lelant Saltings is probably the busiest station on the line. Or at least it was till St Erth Park and Ride took over.

Absolutely, when in operation the car park at Lelant Saltings was often full to capacity in summer, and at certain times of day the station could quite easily fill up 2x150 to capacity.

It’s a rare example of a park & ride scheme that’s successful. Hotels readily advise guests that the best way to visit St Ives is to use the park & ride, and it’s easy to see why as parking in the town is virtually non existent - even some way out - and what parking there is tends to be cramped and hard to reach especially for larger cars.

 

[RPI]

Really? I walked through the Park and Ride Car Park at Lelant in April as part of my Lands End to John o' Groats walk and it appeared to be more or less disused. I appreciate it was prior to the start of the season but it didn't appear to have had much use in many years. In fact I formed the opinion it had probably been a good idea that had never taken off. much of the entrance seems to have been taken for housing.

The line carries very few passengers outside of the summer season, in the winter a single 153 used to be more than adequate (and quite nice as you could get all the tickets done easy then!)

 

[GarethC]

I visited St Ives a couple of years ago in August (staying in Carbis Bay) and was surprised to see queuing pens and crowd management staff at St Ives station. There were staff on the St Ives end of the platform checking tickets of arrivals (and selling to those who didn't have them) and staff at the St Erith end checking/issuing tickets to those entering the platform. People were held in the queue until the platform was empty of arriving passengers and then departing passengers were allowed to board. The trains were all four coach 150s and some people didn't make it on the train and had to wait for the next one.

I've never seen a queuing system like it other than at major stations when an event is on (albeit on a smaller scale at St Ives). Are the queuing 'pens' still there and is this the only example on the network?

 

[Busaholic]

Absolutely, when in operation the car park at Lelant Saltings was often full to capacity in summer, and at certain times of day the station could quite easily fill up 2x150 to capacity.

It’s a rare example of a park & ride scheme that’s successful. Hotels readily advise guests that the best way to visit St Ives is to use the park & ride, and it’s easy to see why as parking in the town is virtually non existent - even some way out - and what parking there is tends to be cramped and hard to reach especially for larger cars.

St Ives used to be the only place in Cornwall which had Traffic Wardens regularly operating up to midnight during summer months, although Newquay might have had them on weekend evenings. They issued dozens of parking fines every night!

 

[Busaholic]

The line carries very few passengers outside of the summer season, in the winter a single 153 used to be more than adequate (and quite nice as you could get all the tickets done easy then!)

With respect, I think you're out of date with that analysis. Passenger numbers p.a. of approx quarter of a million in 2004 increased to over half a million in 2018, and the Devon and Cornwall Rail Partnership are trying to get a better Winter Sunday service out of GWR, such is demand. The building of the Tate Gallery in St Ives twenty-odd years ago, with a recent extension to better cope with visitor numbers, has brought many more out-of-season visitors to St Ives, a good proportion of whom will not be staying in the resort. I would expect the presence of the P&R site at St Erth, more visible and publicised than the old Lelant Saltings one, to only add to these numbers.

 

[RPI]

With respect, I think you're out of date with that analysis. Passenger numbers p.a. of approx quarter of a million in 2004 increased to over half a million in 2018, and the Devon and Cornwall Rail Partnership are trying to get a better Winter Sunday service out of GWR, such is demand. The building of the Tate Gallery in St Ives twenty-odd years ago, with a recent extension to better cope with visitor numbers, has brought many more out-of-season visitors to St Ives, a good proportion of whom will not be staying in the resort. I would expect the presence of the P&R site at St Erth, more visible and publicised than the old Lelant Saltings one, to only add to these numbers.

Again, with respect, I work on them and during the winter months it's incredibly quiet on the St Ives!

 

[Mr Mean]

I used this service today. No ticket inspections at st erth, st Ives or on the train.

There were ticket sellers at st Ives, st erth and carbis bay but not checking anyone.

Excellent service though with friendly staff and couldn't get over the quality of the 150 refurb compared to northerns crappy efforts.

The 150 engines seemed to work better, the seats were comfy with legroom, plugs with 2 usb at each seat. Tables and seats in a 2+2 layout. Lighting, colour scheme and quality was just on a whole different level to northerns terrible standards. They really did feel like a fresh "new" train. Northerns feels like a polished turd in comparison.

 

[Right Away]

This would be because the Park and Ride was about to move to a new home at St Erth which has had a large expenditure on it. The original site was in situ long before the new housing which was built on an old children's amusement park. I'm sure First Kernow bus drivers loved driving double deckers through the narrow housing estate roads in May when the line between Saltings and St Erth was suspended for platform work at St Erth.

I remember the amusement park well. Merlin's Magic Land!

During the summer, the branch staffing levels are normally reinforced with additional staff selling tickets at Carbis Bay and St Ives (and formerly Lelant Saltings). This however seems only to be the case during 'office hours', leaving the conductor to manage (or not) on their own from the late afternoon onwards.

I am glad that the St Erth park and ride facility is up and running and will not miss the Lelant Saltings park and ride. The building of the housing estate on the approach road made the site difficult to access. It used to be a proper park and ride set up with one person with a Sportis machine issuing one ticket that covered the parking and returns for up to 5 people, however more recent times have seen the requirement to buy seperate parking (Cornwall Council) and train tickets, so not really a park and ride in the strictest sense.