RMT dispute on Merseyrail

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by jcollins, 19 Feb 2017.

  1. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

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    What is his role these days? How many Mayors are there in Liverpool now?

    :D
     
  2. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    As the passenger ignored the warning how would DOO have been different?
     
  3. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The new regional 'Metro Mayors' don't replace the existing mayor of the city. London has Charles Bowman as Mayor of City of London as well as Sadiq Kahn, while the situation is similar in Birmingham and Manchester. The difference with Liverpool is the Mayor of the City of Liverpool is elected by the the general public, not by local councillors. As Mayor of City of Liverpool Joe Anderson places like Birkenhead, Southport, St Helens and Runcorn all fall outside his area of remit, while they are all inside Steve Rotheram's area of remit.
     
  4. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde is to leave Merseyrail to become MD of the new West Midlands franchise, he'll be replaced by Andy Heath.
     
  5. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

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    As he’s spent over a year promoting DOO on Merseyrail, if West Midlands opt to retain conventional guards on all trains it’ll be a bit of a turnaround hearing him defend that .
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    As I've said on the DOO threads including this one, Merseyrail is rather a special case. I think it is quite easy to defend no DOO on a system with no level boarding (and none proposed) and where there is substantial inter-running with other trains. As I have said, Merseyrail is different - it's a metro system that is only part of National Rail for reasons of historical accident - had it been built 5-10 years later it almost certainly would have stood alone (and been DOO already). Even the Cross City, which *appears* to have parallels, is fundamentally different and is more like Manchester's suburban operations.

    Furthermore, Merseyrail DOO is the PTE's idea, not the franchisee's. If Merseytravel provided funding for guards I'm sure guards would have continued.
     
  7. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

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    If as it appears, govt is happy to bankroll the other TOCs to switch to a more flexible OBS style system or in some cases full DOO on new and/or compatable stock, then there’s no compelling reason other than fear of industrial action it can’t happen on certain West Midlands routes too.
     
  8. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Indeed so, but it has no relevance to whether the new MD came from Merseyrail or not.
     
  9. HH

    HH Established Member

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    In any case, as an MD you pretty much have to toe the corporate line. If you're one who doesn't like to do that, the you steer clear of going for the job.
     
  10. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Who is taking over the controls of Merseyrail when Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde moves on (if that has been announced)?
     
  11. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Andy Heath as mentioned in post 1474.
     
  12. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Can't read this morning :(

    Nice promotion for Mr Heath, no doubt some will have knives out ready [judging by a couple Twitter posts] if he tows the line wanted by Merseytravel
     
  13. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    An experienced railwayman from Liverpool, replacing someone with a Dutch sounding name from Barnet is probably more likely to hinder the RMT's campaign than to get Merseyrail to change Merseytravel's mind.
     
  14. HH

    HH Established Member

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    Jan might have a Dutch sounding name, but he is a very experienced (UK) railwayman.
     
  15. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Indeed. However, when the RMT are quoted as saying the Dutch are forcing something on us and the response is from Jan Chaudhry-van der Velde who works for a train operator part owned by a Dutch company, to someone who doesn't know better it sounds like the RMT are making a valid point when they aren't.
     
  16. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Latest press release from the RMT regarding Merseyrail

    https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-sets-out-road-map-to-resolve-merseyrail-dispute/

    It will be interesting to see what comes out of the discussion in parliament later, if it gets mentioned.
     
  17. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    There is and can be no negotiation. DOO is planned, and DOO will happen, and so it should on Merseyrail. There is no scope for concession on either side, as there is either DOO or there is not DOO. OBS or similar would not be a benefit to either side in this case.

    If the RMT want this to end like the dockers' dispute, they can have that if they like.

    The only thing worth negotiating on is how the displaced guards are dealt with. In my view, as the new trains will be introduced slowly, there is scope for this to be done with very few if any compulsory redundancies.

    Until the RMT recognise this, this is just going to drag on and on. It's nothing like Southern, nor Northern, nor any of the others. There is simply no case whatsoever[1] for having guards on a metro system with full level boarding. None whatsoever. And hardly any the world over have them as a result. And there are active benefits of DOO, such as 10 seconds off each station stop.

    [1] There is a case for targetted on board staff like ticket checkers and security guards, however, as well as dispatchers at certain stations.
     
  19. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    Agreed. If the RMT pursue this issue on Merseyrail it will do nothing whatsoever for their credibility.
     
  20. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    The RMT press release lacks coherence, they recognise that its the local authority pushing for DOO rather than the operator but then demand that the operator pays for the cost of the strikes rather than the local authority.
     
  21. WombatDeath

    WombatDeath Member

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    Am I misreading the proposal, or does the RMT's roadmap chiefly consist of the Mersey authorities acquiescing to the RMT's demands?

    I mean, yes, obviously it does. What I find odd is the evident lack of any sort of subtlety. I'm genuinely starting to think that the RMT doesn't care how it appears to the general public, because it thinks that its members are a bit stupid and won't recognise the paucity of its rhetoric.
     
  22. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    So when do we find out whether Merseyrail are going to be following suit in the latest RMT strike announcements? I need to know!
     
  23. gavin

    gavin Member

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    24-hour strike announced for December 22nd
     
  24. DMU180

    DMU180 Member

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    The interesting thing at the moment with the Merseyrail dispute is the fact that Merseyrail staff seem to be the only ones who don't see through the RMT's rhetoric. Speaking to staff at other DOO striking companies they seem to be happy with their companies offer and want to make a deal. They are beginning to see through the RMT's power grab as they know that without the doors the RMT have no power to stop trains running.
     
  25. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    Labour say they will stop DOO so RMT have a fair point must be politically embarrassing !
     
  26. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    So, at a tangent but trying to sort my plans out, anyone know if Northern are going to follow suit on 22/12?
     
  27. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Andy McDonald's recent quote is currently meaningless unless there's an early election or further DOO is announced. He hasn't promised to reverse any DOO which has already been implemented and I don't think any post-2022 DOO schemes have yet been approved.
     
  28. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Last Friday before Christmas - the traditional work office party/Christmas dinner date. A lack of evening trains that day might have a huge effect on local restaurants and bars.
     
  29. M28361M

    M28361M Member

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    Also coincides with the third day of a four-day strike by Arriva North West bus drivers, assuming that isn't called off after further talks.
     
  30. Kite159

    Kite159 Established Member

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    Based on previous strike days, I would put money on strikes getting announced for the same day for Northern/GA/SWR & maybe Southern, maybe even XC.

    As for labour saying they will do something if they get into power doesn't always reflect on what they actually do if they should get into power, they will probably set up a committee to look into it.

    Although judging by the latest press release, they have finally worked out it isn't Merseyrail themselves wanting DOO, but the councillors holding the pulse strings at Merseytravel

    https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-confirms-24-hours-of-strike-action-on-merseyrail/
     

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