RMT settle dispute with Greater Anglia

[Richard1960]

It makes sense if you accept that the DfT's motivation for going after the Guards is largely ideological and the end goal is widespread single manning of trains across the country as the standard model, which will deliver the real savings.

If you believe the DfT argument that they just want to 'improve the passenger experience' by downgrading Guards while retaining them on each train, no, it makes very little sense and isn't worth the massive cost and disruption of implementing it in most TOCs. But that is why most sensible people I know don't buy into the angle the DfT sell to the public.

You have hit the nail on the head the DFTs motivation is no guards on any train anywhere , with platitudes made about keeping an on board OBS, if they can run driver only operated why keep an OBS, if one didn't turn up for work one morning the train would just run without ,as a member of the travelling public I support the guards travelled yesterday and was pleased to see the guard was waring the yellow ,keep the guard on the train badge.

 

[kw12]

Will be interesting to see if they get the contingency guards approved for use before this next strike.

If not it will finally make it worth doing for the guards as as yet the action hasn't really stopped anything, the general shortage of drivers on the other hand....

It doesn't appear to have been reported here but ORR did approve the contigency guards for use in this week's strike. What, if anything, have GA had to do differently this time in order to obtain this approval?

 

[Robertj21a]

It doesn't appear to have been reported here but ORR did approve the contigency guards for use in this week's strike. What, if anything, have GA had to do differently this time in order to obtain this approval?

How many incidents had to be reported as a result ?

 

[313103]

It doesn't appear to have been reported here but ORR did approve the contigency guards for use in this week's strike. What, if anything, have GA had to do differently this time in order to obtain this approval?

GA will have done absolutely nothing to gain approval, apart from saying to the government body 'look we have some of our staff on strike and we need to get round it' the government body ie the ORR will say ok just dont screw up like you did the other day, otherwise everything is fine.

 

[HH]

GA will have done absolutely nothing to gain approval, apart from saying to the government body 'look we have some of our staff on strike and we need to get round it' the government body ie the ORR will say ok just dont screw up like you did the other day, otherwise everything is fine.

Something must have been done, even if only on paper, because otherwise if the unthinkable happened, then the questions would be asked and large fines and prison sentences are at stake. The TOC Directors would certainly want to be reassured that they would not be in the firing line - I've seen it happen several times (including them taking legal advice), so I feel certain of this.

 

[Clip]

GA will have done absolutely nothing to gain approval, apart from saying to the government body 'look we have some of our staff on strike and we need to get round it' the government body ie the ORR will say ok just dont screw up like you did the other day, otherwise everything is fine.

Can you back that up with anything solid?

 

[lordbusiness]

The ORR is an independent body.

 

[XDM]

GA will have done absolutely nothing to gain approval, apart from saying to the government body 'look we have some of our staff on strike and we need to get round it' the government body ie the ORR will say ok just dont screw up like you did the other day, otherwise everything is fine.

This is ludicrous & insulting. Where is your evidence?
Your comment is straight from a momentum handbook & I hope not written in your railway employer's time.

 

[313103]

Can you back that up with anything solid?

Where are peoples sense of humour?
Like a lot of people who contribute on this forum No i cant, does that make me any different to them?

I dont call them out when they say I never ever see a Guard whenever they are on a train. I dont call them out when they say unfounded comments about the staff (just look at the thread about graffitti on the train that uttered a swear word, as usual some on hear actually think it was done by a member of the RMT when it is a old picture) but it doesnt stop them from making claims that are false.

 

[313103]

This is ludicrous & insulting. Where is your evidence?
Your comment is straight from a momentum handbook & I hope not written in your railway employer's time.

1. What i find ludicrous and insulting is your happiness and those of others to see people out of work and boast about is quite sickening.
2. As stated above i have no evidence.
3. I am not a member of any political party so you explain to me what a momentum handbook is. Do they even have one more to the point or is this unfounded to.
4. Well as you are in a superior position to me and a man with your influence could easily know if i wrote it in company time and if i did is it any of your concern? i dont question you about writing on here whilst you are at work or not.

 

[313103]

Something must have been done, even if only on paper, because otherwise if the unthinkable happened, then the questions would be asked and large fines and prison sentences are at stake. The TOC Directors would certainly want to be reassured that they would not be in the firing line - I've seen it happen several times (including them taking legal advice), so I feel certain of this.

That is very true, something must of taken place. If a major incident was to have taken place the company will always of had it covered because they will make sure that every single person trained or otherwise will of had to sign a declaration that they are competent to carry out the task at hand. The individual will always take the can, unless it can be proven (and it hasn't yet) that the company are negligent (trying to prove that will also be difficult to do as well) so that a corporate manslaughter can stick.

The directors will not be charged unless it can be totally proven that were negligent to the passengers or even the staff. Of course all the TOCs will of taken legal advice, that is only right that they should do so. I dont know of any incident on the rail network since i have been employed on it where a director has gone to prison, not even the directors of Thames trains after the Ladbroke Grove incident where it was proven that driver training over a complicated area was inadequate went to prison. Although thames Trains were fined after being found found guilty of breaching health and safety regulations.

 

[gavin]

Greater Anglia Stike announced for December 27th with South Western Railway to strike on New Year's Eve

 

[Kite159]

Rather tame press release compared to the usual RMT press releases, maybe the letter was sent out before the talks took place

RMT announces strike action on South Western Railway and Greater Anglia in separate disputes over guards and safety

RAIL UNION RMT today announced strike action on Greater Anglia and South Western Railway later this month in separate disputes over the threat to guards and the safety of the travelling public.

On Greater Anglia members will take strike action from 00.01 to 23.59 hours on Wednesday 27th December 2017

On South Western Railway members will take strike action from 00.01 hours to 23.59 on Sunday 31st December 2017

The union also revealed that yesterday it had met the Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grayling and the rail minister Paul Maynard to try and resolve all of the current rail safety disputes but as a result of the meeting there seemed to be “contradictory messages, confusion and lack of clarity” coming from Ministers and the Department for Transport that made it extremely difficult to negotiate.

On the one hand the union were told at the meeting that the Government is not opposed to a second person on the train and it was up to the RMT and employers to reach an agreement. The union was also offered further talks to discuss concerns around accessibility in respect of driver only trains.

Then within an hour of the meeting finishing RMT General Secretary Mick Cash received a contradictory letter from Chris Grayling asking that the union accepts the principle of driver controlled operation, which is the same model as driver only operation. The union has also subsequently been made aware that Chris Grayling has written to the train companies with the same letter.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“It’s the continuing failure of the train companies and their political puppet masters in Government to make any attempt whatsoever to resolve these disputes over rail safety that has led us to call action today and the responsibility for the disruption that will be caused lays fairly and squarely at their door.

“At the meeting yesterday with the Secretary of State Chris Grayling and the Rail Minister Paul Maynard we were told that we could reach a deal with the employers to keep a second person on the train and we were also offered further talks to discuss our concerns around driver only trains and accessibility.”

“But then within an hour of that meeting I received letter from Chris Grayling asking the union to accept the principle of Driver Only Operation which as everyone knows reduces accessibility because there is no longer guard to assist older and disabled passengers who need assistance. Astonishingly I have also been made aware that Chris Grayling has written to the train companies with the same letter.

“There is chaos and confusion in the rail industry surrounding the Governments positon which makes it almost impossible to negotiate and I have written to Chris Grayling to express my concern at this lack of clarity and contradictory messages but also to offer further talks not least on the vital issue of accessibility.

“It really should be straight forward - the Scottish and Welsh Governments have agreed to keep the guards on our trains so there is no reason why the UK government cannot as well.”

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/new-dates-on-swr-and-greater-anglia-guards-dispute/

Probably won't affect as many passengers as usual as the week between Christmas & New Year is generally quieter, the SWR strike on New Year's Eve might have turned anybody who were heading to London for the fireworks against taking the train

 

[kw12]

Probably won't affect as many passengers as usual as the week between Christmas & New Year is generally quieter, the SWR strike on New Year's Eve might have turned anybody who were heading to London for the fireworks against taking the train

For Greater Anglia passengers, the alterations already planned because of engineering work are likely to have far more impact than any additional changes because of this strike.

 

[aylesbury]

I feel sorry for any passengers inconvienced by this dispute as they all have to work and support their families as do rail staff but rail staff do not a large chunk of income for a season ticket.

 

[dk1]

Probably won't affect as many passengers as usual as the week between Christmas & New Year is generally quieter, the SWR strike on New Year's Eve might have turned anybody who were heading to London for the fireworks against taking the train

The date (27th December) has more to do with covering the service than the effect on passengers I think you'll find.

 

[iphone76]

Aren't GA on strike between 23rd December and 1st January already?

 

[dk1]

Aren't GA on strike between 23rd December and 1st January already?

No. Whatever made you think that?

 

[iphone76]

No. Whatever made you think that?

I thought thats why there were no trains in the South of Essex between those dates.

 

[dk1]

I thought thats why there were no trains in the South of Essex between those dates.

That's just Christmas & New Year engineering works. Most of those trains would be DOO anyway.

 

[iphone76]

I wish we just had one day of strikes over Christmas and New Year rather than 10 days of a bus to Newbury Park.

 

[dk1]

I wish we just had one day of strikes over Christmas and New Year rather than 10 days of a bus to Newbury Park.

A full service ran on the previous strike days. The works will all be worth it when CrossRail is fully up & running.

 

[iphone76]

A full service ran on the previous strike days. The works will all be worth it when CrossRail is fully up & running.

I can't what until all the works are done. Unfortunately, in our neck of the woods we have overhead line works to deal with on weekends and weekday evenings for the next 18 or so months.

 

[dk1]

I can't what until all the works are done. Unfortunately, in our neck of the woods we have overhead line works to deal with on weekends and weekday evenings for the next 18 or so months.

That means I will be turning round at Ingatestone & hopefully get home a bit earlier

 

[iphone76]

That means I will be turning round at Ingatestone & hopefully get home a bit earlier

Nice one! You've got to make the most of this while it lasts.

 

[gavin]

Series of 24 hour strikes announced for January

 

[kw12]

Series of 24 hour strikes announced for January

It seems to have gone very quiet on Greater Anglia with, as far as I am aware, no further action having taken place or announced since January, unlike with the other TOCs.

 

[grumblingalong]

It seems to have gone very quiet on Greater Anglia with, as far as I am aware, no further action having taken place or announced since January, unlike with the other TOCs.

I can't say too much, but sufficient progress has been made in talks to prevent any new dates being called. The dispute is far from over but seems to be moving ever so slowly in the right direction.

 

[Sleepy]

2nd ballot as required under new law for strike action has been counted - with a resounding yes vote for continued action. This was very important for RMT as all the others TOC's involved (and dft) in DOO disputes were watching this closely.

 

[AlterEgo]

Are the Government picking up the tab for industrial action costs with the Greater Anglia franchise?