RMT DOO Dispute on West Midlands Trains

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by footprints, 20 Sep 2019.

  1. sd0733

    sd0733 Established Member

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    It's not that, several drivers have not crossed the picket lines at various depots.
     
  2. the sniper

    the sniper Established Member

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    Then. Now. Forever?
     
  3. bussnapperwm

    bussnapperwm Member

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    Does anyone know if the Bordesley Parly ran today? If not then it'd be the first Saturday in years it's not run.
     
  4. iainbhx

    iainbhx Member

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    I went from Spring Road to Moor Street this morning and back this evening. This morning was fine, this evening there were delays blamed on, wait for it, congestion.
     
  5. Hadders

    Hadders Fares Advisor

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    Almost everything from Euston and Birmingham New Street to Northampton cancelled this evening, including the last train.
     
  6. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 On Moderation

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    Can anyone explain what happened with the “non strike workers refusing to go over the picket fence”???
     
  7. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Train drivers refused to cross the guard's picket lines. I'm not entirely sure why they're surprised given Merseyrail's drivers did the same and it was WCML South crews in the 90s who sat in their trains when they attempted DOO-P and refused to move without guards.
     
  8. oversteer

    oversteer Member

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    Isn’t that breach of contract, possibly even illegal? Assuming it wasn’t voluntary RDW or whatever
     
  9. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    where drivers of RMT were also balloted, ASLEF drivers can also choose to strike as the company doesn’t know which union you belong to and can’t penalise. However absolutely no hardship payment can be made, so effectively ASLEF drivers are worse off than the guards they are supporting.
     
  10. JamesT

    JamesT Member

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    Refusing to cross the picket line would be deemed as joining the strike. From https://www.gov.uk/if-your-business-faces-industrial-action/nonunion-employees-and-strikes
    I assume the drivers would count as non-union for these purposes as they’re not part of the union that’s called the strike.
     
  11. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Non-union for these purposes means not in any union. It may seem perverse, but it excludes members of other unions not involved in the dispute, but in the grades as those in dispute. Therefore it excludes drivers in ASLEF.
     
  12. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Striking is a breach of contract, even backed by a ballot, but is protected from the threat of dismissal for the first 12 weeks from the start of any period of strike action.
     
  13. virgintrain1

    virgintrain1 Member

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    ["LowLevel, post: 4290948, member: 22586"]Train drivers refused to cross the guard's picket lines. I'm not entirely sure why they're surprised given Merseyrail's drivers did the same and it was WCML South crews in the 90s who sat in their trains when they attempted DOO-P and refused to move without guards.[/QUOTE]

    Pitty the Southern drivers weren't as supportive.
     
  14. gazzaa2

    gazzaa2 Member

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    The guards aren't going to stay there every Saturday, particularly in December. When Northern decided to strike every Saturday they made their presence felt the first week or two and that was it.
     
  15. dangie

    dangie Member

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    Knowing there is not going to be a service on the Chase Line to and from Rugeley was actually a plus point for Rugeley passengers who usually turn up 'hoping' there is going to be a service.
     
  16. scrapy

    scrapy Established Member

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    Really? I know on the West side all depots had picket lines everyday of the strikes.
     
  17. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

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    At least I know not to bother with the train on Saturdays now, so it's the car, again.
    Many people must be fed up with the unreliability of the railways nowadays, there's been plenty of industrial action across the country in recent years and the continuing cancellations due to lack of train crew make trips more stressful than they should be.
     
  18. gazzaa2

    gazzaa2 Member

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    Saturday is my leisure day and I like to groundhop with football and go to different places on the train, it hasn't half got the worse the last year or two. Overcrowded trains all over the country, any weather abnormality causing chaos, signal/wiring failures, tresspassers on the line, staff not turning up to work meaning more and more trains cancelled, old rolling stock, not enough carriages. All things which make the journey more unpleasant as they're even busier when you actually get on a train. Even the WCML has gone to hell lately and seems to be badly creaking. HS2 still years away as well.

    The state of the trains at the moment must be putting even more pressure on the roads, especially in the north and midlands.
     
  19. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    It actually amazes me that passenger numbers are still increasing across the UK.
     
  20. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Pitty the Southern drivers weren't as supportive.[/QUOTE]

    They tried and got burned.

    It has to be absolutely nothing to do with their union otherwise they leave themselves open to legal action and huge damages for taking industrial action without a ballot.
     
  21. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

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    Perhaps all the additional services that have been specified in recently awarded franchise’s have a lot to do with that.
     
  22. gazzaa2

    gazzaa2 Member

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    People are encouraged to leave their cars/stop flying for domestic flights but then the trains can't cope. They're always packed out on the weekend and that's before you factor in events like football/rugby, christmas markets, half term, summer holidays, hot weather. It's not fit for purpose as it is.

    City centre living is a big thing now. Cities like Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham are having a population explosion in the centre, plus all the students (and an improved young person's railcard has added more passengers) and if you live in a big city centre you're more likely to use public transport. Try getting on a train at New Street, Leeds or Manchester though. it's a nightmare. Incompetent TOCs like WMR making ridiculous decisions exacerbates this.
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Plenty of precedent for that then.

    They are wilful liars. Release a timetable you CAN run (even if that's "nowt") and add to it if more staff show up.

    This is beyond even the worst so far. The franchise needs withdrawing now and vesting in DOR.
     
  24. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    How would that change things ?
     
  25. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Isn't that illegal though, the Drivers haven't been balloted and hence cannot join in with the industrial action?
     
  26. Silverlinky

    Silverlinky Member

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    I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the whole guards dispute is DFT led, I mean, many franchises with different owning companies....
    How would putting the DFT in charge of the individual franchises make things better?
     
  27. Silverlinky

    Silverlinky Member

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    I would have thought it would at least be classed as awol...or whatever term they’d use for it, and then dealt with by whatever procedure that have for dealing with such instances? Disciplinary?
     
  28. 8J

    8J Member

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    RMT balloted their driver members hence why ASLEF drivers can refuse to cross picket lines.

    The company do not know what union individual drivers are members of since the unions went away from the salary deduction to direct debit for membership subs.
     
  29. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

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    Isn’t this particular dispute more RMT internally led,? given they’d essentially signed a framework agreement with the TOC 18 months earlier that more militant factions then opted to overturn
     
    Last edited: 17 Nov 2019
  30. OxtedSignaller

    OxtedSignaller Member

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    Pitty the Southern drivers weren't as supportive.[/QUOTE]

    A lot of them were particurlarly on the South Coast however the main problem was a lot of the South London Driver Depots where they either had purely DOO work or very little conventional working so they took the view it was not their dispute. This and the fact the DfT was bankrolling GTR and the 377s were already enabled for DOO. To be fair though I do not think the RMT were particurlarly blameless, as had they been a bit more clever at the time they could have got a few more concessions which I think they now realise.
     

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