RMT report about Trainline

[High Dyke]

Trainline accused of ripping off customers and deliberately misleading them

Rail union RMT, today published survey results revealing Trainline's destructive practice of ripping off passengers, misleading the general public, and undermining the integrity of the railways.

www.rmt.org.uk

The survey, which asked more than 2,600 rail workers about their experiences, uncovered a range of serious problems with Trainline's ticketing system — bogus tickets, excessive pricing, and confusing fare options.

The results show that Trainline does not deliver best-value fares and has put profits ahead of its commitment to deliver a public service.

 

[SamYeager]

Well going by the excerpt the only difference between the railway and Trainline is the "bogus tickets". If Trainline are in fact flogging "bogus tickets" which would be fraudulent, then no doubt the RMT has provided their evidence to the police. I'm not quite sure where the "undermining the integrity of the railways" comes in - "bogus tickets"?

 

[43066]

One issue - aside from the ticketing aspects - is people believing the platform information to be gospel, and then refusing to obey staff instructions when they’re told that actually the train they want is on the adjacent platform!

 

[185143]

One issue - aside from the ticketing aspects - is people believing the platform information to be gospel, and then refusing to obey staff instructions when they’re told that actually the train they want is on the adjacent platform!

I got told by a Network Rail Station Manager a bit ago that Trainline don't pay for the latest updates, hence why their app says "Platform 3 Estimated", for example.

But I've certainly seen plenty miss full and standing trains, ignore about 5 announcements and then go to the staff and say "but Trainline said..."

 

[WelshBluebird]

Some of the twitter conversations about this have been bonkers. Yes there are other retailers but some people seem to have a hate boner over the trainline. Even to the extent of the RMT retweeting someone complaining that London area fares being more expensive on the trainline app than oyster / contactless and that somehow being the trainlines fault, rather than the entire industry having that issue!

 

[Krokodil]

Yes there are other retailers but some people seem to have a hate boner over the trainline

Probably because it has such a large chunk of the market that it crops up as an issue more than its competitors.

For what it's worth, I also get fed up with Trainpal and Trip.com for various reasons. When there are multiple tickets, is it really that difficult to display them in any sort of order? Trip.com's loading screen wastes half of my life too.

The biggest gripe I've got with Trainline is that they sell people what they call an "Open Return". Which generally turns out to be something involving a Day Return for all or part of the journey. The passenger then wonders why the ticket disappeared overnight.

 

[43066]

I’ll preface by saying that the RMT do a cracking job by the members, most of the time.

I freely admit I don’t know enough about ticketing to comment on the issues they raise, so they may (or may not!) have a point, but it’s just hard to understand why they persist in wading into these areas.

They’ve surveyed rail staff - fair enough - how many rail staff actually use that app to book tickets? Most front line staff use rail staff travel, surely, due to the priv discount. It’s an odd one.

Thankfully ASLEF are far more sensible, and just do a very good job indeed of delivering what we members pay them to deliver, rather than wading into this sort of nonsense.

 

[Mike_0ne]

I was called to intervene with REO staff and an irate customer. turns out the foreigner had thought the trainline would quickly change times for their ticket, they didn't and she refused to co-operate with REO's at the end of her journey... though her attitude didn't help.

 

[MrJeeves]

I got told by a Network Rail Station Manager a bit ago that Trainline don't pay for the latest updates, hence why their app says "Platform 3 Estimated", for example.

What incredible nonsense...

 

[alistairlees]

The report is astonishlingly inaccurate and misleading.

 

[Krokodil]

They’ve surveyed rail staff - fair enough - how many rail staff actually use that app to book tickets?

I think that it's more about frontline staff being in the firing line when a passenger doesn't understand exactly what Trainline sold them.

 

[Hadders]

The report overlooks the times when Trainline sells a valid ticket but staff refuse to accept it is valid.

 

[Adam Williams]

The report is astonishingly inaccurate and misleading.

It really is. If anything the survey results highlight significant widespread problems with staff conduct when evaluating ticket validity and dealing with TPR customers, as well.

Disappointing that this is the fight the union has decided to try and pick.

I got told by a Network Rail Station Manager a bit ago that Trainline don't pay for the latest updates, hence why their app says "Platform 3 Estimated", for example.

That is not how any of this works.

 

[185143]

It really is. If anything the survey results highlight significant widespread problems with staff conduct when evaluating ticket validity and dealing with TPR customers, as well.

Disappointing that this is the fight the union has decided to try and pick.


That is not how any of this works.

I was a bit sceptical!

 

[Kite159]

I’ll preface by saying that the RMT do a cracking job by the members, most of the time.

I freely admit I don’t know enough about ticketing to comment on the issues they raise, so they may (or may not!) have a point, but it’s just hard to understand why they persist in wading into these areas.

They’ve surveyed rail staff - fair enough - how many rail staff actually use that app to book tickets? Most front line staff use rail staff travel, surely, due to the priv discount. It’s an odd one.

Thankfully ASLEF are far more sensible, and just do a very good job indeed of delivering what we members pay them to deliver, rather than wading into this sort of nonsense.

And how many are annoyed that Trainline takes their commission (if they are a guard which gets commission on sales) when customers board at stations which don't have a ticket office nor a working TVM.

 

[Adam Williams]

I was a bit sceptical!

I do wonder where some of these crazy ideas come from

And how many are annoyed that Trainline takes their commission (if they are a guard which gets commission on sales) when customers board at stations which don't have a ticket office nor a working TVM.

Campaigning for new approaches to compensation to replace lost commission is a cause I'd have some sympathy for. But you surely get people on-side by explaining how the nature of ticket retail has changed and compensation structure hasn't kept up; not by attacking progress and technology that allows people to buy tickets much more easily on their own device.

 

[Krokodil]

And how many are annoyed that Trainline takes their commission (if they are a guard which gets commission on sales) when customers board at stations which don't have a ticket office nor a working TVM.

Not something I hear from colleagues. Plenty of annoyance at the arguments they end up having when the passenger swears blind that Trainline said something. There's quite a lot of commission to be had selling new tickets to people who bought an Avanti-only return ticket without Trainline pointing out that their options for returning on that ticket are incredibly limited. A good conductor or booking office clerk will offer to check the permissable return journeys which can be made on the ticket they are offering. Trainline just has the restrictions in faint text ("valid only on [operator] services", "train must call at [minor station]") without telling passengers that there is a six hour gap between permitted trains for that ticket. Obviously if they select a return journey then it will sell them something valid, but if they select "open return" then it doesn't warn them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Trainline doesn't sell splits under the open return option. You can still end up with a TOC specific fare, but you can with any sales site.

 

[Krokodil]

Trainline doesn't sell splits under the open return option.

Since when? It certainly used to, I got no end of grief.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I’d say a much bigger issue was RMT members using TIRs inappropriately with the aim of generating more revenue for their TOCs…

 

[Bletchleyite]

Since when? It certainly used to, I got no end of grief.

Not sure when it changed, but I bought an MKC-Birmingham walk up split about a month ago (there's one that doesn't in any way affect validity for a day return trip because all trains call there but saves about £6 if I recall) and I had to select Return and put specific return trains in to get it to show it.

Might be that it only shows period return walk up splits if Open Return is selected (and there aren't that many of those - most walk up splits involve stringing low priced day return tickets together for a longer journey that has no day return), but I don't think it shows any.

 

[Harpo]

I can understand RMT having concerns for its members’ stress in constantly dealing with passengers with incorrect tickets. Andrew Haines recently commented on customers with incorrect tickets being a feature of most trains he had used. (Read that somewhere in MR).

It sounds as though RMT is pursuing the idealogical issues of a third party supplier and has ended up addressing the symptoms of ticketing problems rather than the causes.

 

[swt_passenger]

Haven’t people been caught out by having splits that included a random advance in amongst the singles that effectively fixed their travel time, but they’d wanted a flexible fare?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Haven’t people been caught out by having splits that included a random advance in amongst the singles that effectively fixed their travel time, but they’d wanted a flexible fare?

People have been caught out by not reading what they were being offered, yes. They always will be - the same people would be (and often are on the likes of Northern) caught out by a through Advance, too. Most people expect long distance rail to be advance booked and train specific, but for a local journey they don't expect that.

I can understand RMT having concerns for its members’ stress in constantly dealing with passengers with incorrect tickets. Andrew Haines recently commented on customers with incorrect tickets being a feature of most trains he had used. (Read that somewhere in MR).

It sounds as though RMT is pursuing the idealogical issues of a third party supplier and has ended up addressing the symptoms of ticketing problems rather than the causes.

I think it's also concerned about it costing booking office jobs, which it does because you don't need as many windows even if you don't close them completely.

 

[LowLevel]

Three biggest gripes:

1. The "open return". Until they "simplified" it, the Anytime was a Standard Open Return. To this day, my experience as a ticket seller has been that when people say "open return" they want a period ticket to return another day with some flexibility. It is a failure to understand their customer base that they continue to use it the way they do and I am fed up on a Sunday of having to sort out people that they've sold day returns to as "open returns" for their weekend trip away on a Friday.

2. Split save and people not getting that they have to check every ticket for restrictions rather than just seeing that they've been chucked an "anytime day ticket" for the first bit of their journey to match up with an advance from a few stops in.

3. "Valid only on Northern Trains services" - "but we are in the North!".

"Valid only on trains operated by NORTHERN" would be much better, given that is what is written on the side of most of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Three biggest gripes:

1. The "open return". Until they "simplified" it, the Anytime was a Standard Open Return. To this day, my experience as a ticket seller has been that when people say "open return" they want a period ticket to return another day with some flexibility. It is a failure to understand their customer base that they continue to use it the way they do and I am fed up on a Sunday of having to sort out people that they've sold day returns to as "open returns" for their weekend trip away on a Friday.

This of course isn't a Trainline problem alone, it applies to all sales sites. I do agree it'd be handy if there was a separate "day return" and "period return" option. However it's more likely period returns will go away entirely solving that another way - if not returning the same day buy two singles. Once that eventually does happen the tab could be renamed to "same day return".

 

[OscarH]

3. "Valid only on Northern Trains services" - "but we are in the North!".

This is set by the TOC in the data feed this way, not something Trainline or any retailer controls

 

[LowLevel]

This is set by the TOC in the data feed this way, not something Trainline or any retailer controls

Which I think is much of the problem - there's nothing in the way of feedback channels for frontline staff either to the retail side of the train operators or to anyone regulating the apps. The impression you get is "don't care, we do things our way".

 

[scrapy]

I've seen Trainline sell someone a Manchester Victoria to Piccadilly single before as part of a split ticket journey, on an itinerary that tells them to walk between the stations!

 

[OscarH]

Which I think is much of the problem - there's nothing in the way of feedback channels for frontline staff either to the retail side of the train operators or to anyone regulating the apps. The impression you get is "don't care, we do things our way".

As someone in the retail side who's often trying to get the data fixed, I feel your pain, it can feel much the same for us trying to get in contact with some TOCs! (I should add that other TOCs are very efficient and willing to help)