• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

RMT reporting Abellio to default on Scotrail franchise

Status
Not open for further replies.

Scarpa

New Member
Joined
7 Sep 2019
Messages
1
Location
reading
For a country so small you have to ask why have they managed to open so many rail lines had lots f new rolling stock. Part of its demise is staff attitude .Abellio shareholders have earnt nothing from their investment .
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Edders23

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
549
So this is really a non story after all how many franchise holders consistently hit their performance targets ?
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
8,677
Its sad to see the railway as such a political point and very little appetite for everyone to sit down and make the railway successful.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,908
Its sad to see the railway as such a political point and very little appetite for everyone to sit down and make the railway successful.

The problem is railway success for shareholders (profit and dividends) is different to railway success fo the unions (jobs an good conditions for all their members) and the two are mutually exclusive it would seem.
 

sannox

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2016
Messages
384
I think there is a difference between the Edinburgh/east coast services and the Glasgow services. Those in SPTE land are generally more stable and reliable- not without their faults however.

I do think that some hold the rail operator to an unacceptably high bar- certain things will happen no matter the operator.

Off-peak fares are pretty reasonable, some peak fares, e.g. Glasgow to Edinburgh are astronomical.
Interesting that the RMT want public (presumably CalMac) ownership when they’ve been in dispute with CalMac a few times over recent years.

I don't think the peak Glasgow - Edinburgh fare at £25.50 return is all that bad to be honest- I'd pay it every time over the M8. The problem is single fares which are expensive.

The RMT will want a public operator to exert more political influence- a strike with the politicians held over the barrel is better for them. The politicians would be wise to keep a middleman- if only to avoid them being blamed and losing votes every time a train is a few minutes late.
 
Joined
4 Sep 2016
Messages
36
I don't think the peak Glasgow - Edinburgh fare at £25.50 return is all that bad to be honest- I'd pay it every time over the M8. The problem is single fares which are expensive.

It's a very expensive line, as many intercity journeys are. Rail travel - where capacity allows - should be priced to allow a modal shift from cars and planes.

It's cheaper to drive between Glasgow & Edinburgh and park all day in the city centre than it is to get the train.
Now EGIP is almost complete the journey cost should be reduced, hopefully the Almond Chord is built and an additional two services per hour can be added (also adding in the Shotts Electrification and the ability to run more services there too).

That'd take a lot of traffic off the roads; a cheaper journey fare would encourage people that can't afford the train (and take the bus) to shift over too.

The fastest journey time is now 42 minutes, £25 return is too expensive for such a short intercity commuter journey.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,978
The fastest journey time is now 42 minutes, £25 return is too expensive for such a short intercity commuter journey.

You want to see some of the prices we pay down south....
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
The fastest journey time is now 42 minutes, £25 return is too expensive for such a short intercity commuter journey.
Basingstoke to London Waterloo is a similar distance and time. It’s 44.50 peak return.
Reading to Paddington is closer. And quicker. £45.70

Plus for London you add tube travel to it.

25 quid is a bargain. Relatively As is Manchester to Leeds.
 

snookertam

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
774
You want to see some of the prices we pay down south....

But we also see the prices that are paid elsewhere - places where fares are used to encourage people to leave their cars at home and not deliberately price people out of rail travel.
 

alangla

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
True enough, but it’s up against Citylink (£10 for a period anytime return, 90-120 mins journey) and driving & parking at places like Ingliston (£3.30 I think) - congestion up here is nothing like London levels & parking is a fraction of the cost.
 
Joined
4 Sep 2016
Messages
36
Basingstoke to London Waterloo is a similar distance and time. It’s 44.50 peak return.
Reading to Paddington is closer. And quicker. £45.70

Plus for London you add tube travel to it.

25 quid is a bargain. Relatively As is Manchester to Leeds.

Absolutely in that context, but not so much in encouraging people out of cars.

There are four electrified lines that run between Edinburgh and Glasgow, with the ability to increase capacity further (by Almond Chord, adding passing trackets, etc) and to increase the number of trains via Falkirk High alone from 4 to 6 (Almond Chord).

I imagine few of those lines are able to add capacity like that, particularly London routes.

Pricing also has to mange demand, but it should also be able to induce it.
 

Deltic1961

Member
Joined
30 May 2018
Messages
645
One thing I've noticed particular to our station (6 mile commuter journey) is that the fares go up pretty much each year 10p at a time.

When we moved here 16 years ago the train journey to Aberdeen was far cheaper than the bus, now it's the same.

Is £2.70 reasonable for a 6 mile 10 minute journey?

I think it's £3.70 return but for two people or more it's still cheaper taking the car and parking. That needs to change.

I don't understand why the single journey isn't just half the price of the return.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
But we also see the prices that are paid elsewhere - places where fares are used to encourage people to leave their cars at home and not deliberately price people out of rail travel.
Oh and add 10-20 quid a DAY to park at London main Commuter stations.

It also helps that Glasgow and Edinburgh are relatively small and pretty well connected and you can drive into them. It don’t work for that there London. You drive into central London if you are well paid enough to have a car and driver, or you have to be at your desk for trading hours, otherwise you simply use two wheels or public transport. Private cars almost don’t exist in the City during the day. Whereas my colleagues and peers on places like Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol and Leeds all drive. Often because they have a parking space. I couldn’t get a bicycle space at one city tower, let alone a motorbike or car space...

And outside of politics of jealousy and the very well paid, London wages ain’t all that for many...
 

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
3,544
The fastest journey time is now 42 minutes, £25 return is too expensive for such a short intercity commuter journey.
I often hear this a value of a fare based on it's time. But by this logic If the train crawled along at 30mph and took 2 hours then would it be better value for money?!
 

sannox

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2016
Messages
384
True enough, but it’s up against Citylink (£10 for a period anytime return, 90-120 mins journey) and driving & parking at places like Ingliston (£3.30 I think) - congestion up here is nothing like London levels & parking is a fraction of the cost.

If you do it regularly you'll find it is £10 for a reason- if you work near Haymarket and want there for 9am, you are leaving 7am - easily save an hour on the train.

My company lets me decide travel but public transport is recommended as even at peak time the train is much cheaper than paying mileage and parking. Having done the Glasgow-Edinburgh commute, train is worth it.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,632
Location
Gateway to the South West
I don't understand why the single journey isn't just half the price of the return.
It's more why the return isn't double the single, which is because you get a bulk discount (just like a multi-pack of cola is less than the sum of individual cans of cola, or a big can of beans is less than twice the price of two small cans of beans).
 

David M

Member
Joined
16 Jan 2018
Messages
146
There is undoubtedly a political agenda - you only need to look at the frequency of "Dutch run" in newspaper reporting.
Scotrail definitely has issues and the HST introduction has indeed been a total shambles but, nevertheless, as a regular user from Tweedbank to Glasgow/Ayrshire and Tweedbank to Aberdeen, I am well served much more often that not.
My understanding is that the Scottish Government has no powers to nationalise Scotrail but have gained approval for a publicly owned company to make a franchise bid in the same was as any private company. There is no guarantee that a) this would be a successful bid or b) anything would actually improve with such a franchise change.
 

Mitchell Hurd

On Moderation
Joined
28 Oct 2017
Messages
1,648
I wouldn't like to be in Scotrail's shoes if passengers have missed a family or friends funerals or even the last opportunity to visit a friend or family member in hospital (if you get me) because of Scotrails reported mess ups!
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
I wouldn't like to be in Scotrail's shoes if passengers have missed a family or friends funerals or even the last opportunity to visit a friend or family member in hospital (if you get me) because of Scotrails reported mess ups!
Need to put this into perspective. I know it isn’t a race to the bottom. But us in GTR land would love ScotRail’s level of performance.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,594
If you do it regularly you'll find it is £10 for a reason- if you work near Haymarket and want there for 9am, you are leaving 7am - easily save an hour on the train.

My company lets me decide travel but public transport is recommended as even at peak time the train is much cheaper than paying mileage and parking. Having done the Glasgow-Edinburgh commute, train is worth it.[/QUOTE

Railcard is £8.80 return off peak so less incentive to use coach . I try and avoid peak where possible. But yeah there commuters on the coach.

But so much quicker via Falkirk High.
 

Dr Hoo

Established Member
Joined
10 Nov 2015
Messages
3,910
Location
Hope Valley
I wouldn't like to be in Scotrail's shoes if passengers have missed a family or friends funerals or even the last opportunity to visit a friend or family member in hospital (if you get me) because of Scotrails reported mess ups!
I heard plenty of that kind of comment when I was a ScotRail manager back in BR times. What is different about today? (There were far fewer ‘next trains’ or potential alternative routes between Edinburgh and Glasgow back in those days as well.)
 

scotrail158713

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
1,797
Location
Dundee
But so much quicker via Falkirk High.
But time isn’t everything for everyone.
(Although I agree the Falkirk High route is extremely quick - I went that route to Queen Street last night and noticed the difference when going via Bathgate back home - that was a slog :))
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,594
But time isn’t everything for everyone.
(Although I agree the Falkirk High route is extremely quick - I went that route to Queen Street last night and noticed the difference when going via Bathgate back home - that was a slog :))

Yeah , true , sometimes i go a longer way to ensure a quiet journey.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Yeah , true , sometimes i go a longer way to ensure a quiet journey.

Yeah, I often travel from Linlithgow to Glasgow, and if I'm not in a hurry, I'll take the Cumbernauld service because (a) it often has declassified first class on it and (b) even if it doesn't, it's far less busy.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
sooooo... the original topic here, a load of hot air?
Yes. In reality the headline should have been "RMT reports that Scotrail won't meet passenger satisfaction targets... again" but no one would have paid any attention if that was the headline as it is hardly news especially for forum users or readers of a certain Scottish newspaper.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top