ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[island]

Thanks for the helpful reply - its a good point that I will now be taking a coach anyway, so could have gone on the WCML after all. Unfortunately zero availability for any advance fares, so its £108 cheapest one way now standard class! Guess I'll stick to LNER...

Who do I seek reimbursement from? Scotrail whose services are impacted or LNER who sold the ticket?

If you decide not to travel and seek a refund, you get it from the seller of the ticket, LNER.

If you travel and are delayed by more than the threshold time, you seek compensation from the company whose service caused your delay, namely ScotRail.

 

[ld0595]

I'm surprised this hasn't had much coverage in the media or parliament - we're on week 15 (?) of industrial action now. Any chance of this being resolved soon or should we plan for more strikes beyond 25 July?

 

[Deltic1961]

It's interesting how Scotrail have so much time for agenda based things like painting trains in rainbow colours, promoting females employees, supporting charities and telling us what to think and do but the strike which loses them a day's revenue every week doesn't seem to be an issue for them.

 

[Watershed]

It's interesting how Scotrail have so much time for agenda based things like painting trains in rainbow colours, promoting females employees, supporting charities and telling us what to think and do but the strike which loses them a day's revenue every week doesn't seem to be an issue for them.

It's not an issue because services are loss making when they do run. So they are actually losing less money by not running on Sundays.

The bigger issue is how the Scottish Government expects people to take the train seriously as an alternative to driving, when they are not willing to sort out these issues to give a reliable 7 day service.

Seems pretty pointless to be investing all this money into improvements if the railways simply don't run on a Sunday (which is now one of the biggest days for leisure travel).

 

[Robertj21a]

I'd totally forgotten that the industrial action was still ongoing. It's something to certainly bear in mind if I still go ahead with a planned 8-day rail rover.

 

[XAM2175]

It's interesting how Scotrail have so much time for agenda based things like painting trains in rainbow colours, promoting females employees, supporting charities and telling us what to think and do but the strike which loses them a day's revenue every week doesn't seem to be an issue for them.

You'd be complaining about being told "what to think and do" even if there wasn't a strike on, wouldn't you?

 

[scotraildriver]

It's interesting how Scotrail have so much time for agenda based things like painting trains in rainbow colours, promoting females employees, supporting charities and telling us what to think and do but the strike which loses them a day's revenue every week doesn't seem to be an issue for them.

It doesn't lose them money, it's saving the taxpayer a fortune which is why I suspect there is little appetite to resolve this from the Scottish Government. Not running trains or paying staff when there are still relatively few passengers and services are taxpayer funded is an excellent result financially. Not of course for the customers.

 

[92002]

It doesn't lose them money, it's saving the taxpayer a fortune which is why I suspect there is little appetite to resolve this from the Scottish Government. Not running trains or paying staff when there are still relatively few passengers and services are taxpayer funded is an excellent result financially. Not of course for the customers.

On their current contract. Scotrail are paid to run trains. So if they don't run they don't get paid. Staff having a day off don't get paid either. So it's an standoff who blinks first.

The only Losers are the customers. Having said that the many DOO services are running.

 

[Scotrail314209]

On their current contract. Scotrail are paid to run trains. So if they don't run they don't get paid. Staff having a day off don't get paid either. So it's an standoff who blinks first.

The only Losers are the customers. Having said that the many DOO services are running.

It's really limited on the DOO routes:

1tph Wemyss Bay
1tph Gourock (regular for Sundays on both)

1tph Largs
1tph Ayr (down from 2)

Nothing to Ardrossan Harbour, Neilston, Newton, Cathcart, Lanark and Motherwell.

Nothing on the complete length of Argyle Line.

1tph Airdrie - Balloch
1tph Helensburgh - Edinburgh

Nothing to Springburn.

 

[kez19]

It's really limited on the DOO routes:

1tph Wemyss Bay
1tph Gourock (regular for Sundays on both)

1tph Largs
1tph Ayr (down from 2)

Nothing to Ardrossan Harbour, Neilston, Newton, Cathcart, Lanark and Motherwell.

Nothing on the complete length of Argyle Line.

1tph Airdrie - Balloch
1tph Helensburgh - Edinburgh

Nothing to Springburn.

Also to add we have no Scotrail services from Aberdeen either, limited service to Edinburgh by LNER/XC and no service to Glasgow

 

[yorkie]

It's interesting how Scotrail have so much time for agenda based things like painting trains in rainbow colours, promoting females employees, supporting charities ....

It's great that Scotrail have time for such things, though I don't see the relevance here?

and telling us what to think and do

I'm not aware of Scotrail telling anyone what to think, but if you have an example of this, I would suggest it is best posted in a dedicated thread.

but the strike which loses them a day's revenue every week doesn't seem to be an issue for them.

I'm sure discussions are proceeding behind the scenes.

 

[GLC]

Why, if this is a strike of ticket examiners, are DOO services subject to cancellation? I thought trains could still run without a T.E. in place, or are drivers also striking in solidarity?

 

[Watershed]

Why, if this is a strike of ticket examiners, are DOO services subject to cancellation? I thought trains could still run without a T.E. in place, or are drivers also striking in solidarity?

Because under the Strathclyde Manning Agreement, all DOO services must be rostered to have a Ticket Examiner. If the TEs give advance notice of a strike, they cannot be rostered and thus the train cannot run.

The few DOO services that running have trained management volunteers on them.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Because under the Manning Agreement, all services must be rostered to have a Ticket Examiner. If the TEs give advance notice of a strike, they cannot be rostered and thus the train cannot run.

The few DOO services that running have trained management volunteers on them.

Would the reason that the Ayrshire/Inverclyde services are still running be that they are DOO routes that go much more further out than the rest of the Glasgow DOO services, whereas the other routes all have suitable alternative transport available?

 

[InOban]

AIUI, and I'm a lay person, there's a matter of principle involved. During lockdown quite a few traincrew left, by retirement or otherwise. Scotrail negotiated a temporary increase in O/T rates so that the missing shifts were covered. However it did not take long to recruit and train replacement RMT members while of course it takes a great deal longer to complete the training of drivers because cabs aren't large enough to maintain distancing. The question is, were the deals with the RMT and ASLEF grades one deal - so the deal continues until there are enough drivers - or separate deals in which case Scotrail are entitled to discontinue the uplift to the RMT grades.

 

[Bald Rick]

The question is, were the deals with the RMT and ASLEF grades one deal - so the deal continues until there are enough drivers - or separate deals in which case Scotrail are entitled to discontinue the uplift to the RMT grades

Different bargaining arrangements between the grades, so they must have been separate deals.

 

[the sniper]

Different bargaining arrangements between the grades, so they must have been separate deals.

Is that definitely the case here? The have been places that have had collective bargaining/deals across the grades.

 

[LowLevel]

Is that definitely the case here? The have been places that have had collective bargaining/deals across the grades.

Not many. Standard ASLEF tactic to move their pay anniversary to January from the traditional April to avoid having to take part in the usual collective bargaining and get their oar in first and screw everyone else

 

[the sniper]

Not many. Standard ASLEF tactic to move their pay anniversary to January from the traditional April to avoid having to take part in the usual collective bargaining and get their oar in first and screw everyone else

Indeed, they're not common! Admittedly, the one I was familiar with ended a couple of years ago, but they do exist and I'd have thought circumstance like this might be where there could be one in place.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is that definitely the case here? The have been places that have had collective bargaining/deals across the grades.

AIUI yes.

 

[scrapy]

Because under the Strathclyde Manning Agreement, all DOO services must be rostered to have a Ticket Examiner. If the TEs give advance notice of a strike, they cannot be rostered and thus the train cannot run.

Rostering will still take place. Individuals don't give strike notice, the union does. The company doesn't know who is a union member, and union members still have free will to work should they choose. Also should strike action be called off last minute, it would be foolish for the company not to have a plan in place. Individuals may also at a later date claim they were available to work but simply not rostered, leading to claims for rest day payments etc.

 

[Falcon1200]

There must surely come a point when those on strike have lost more income through missed Sunday shifts than they would gain from higher overtime payments (if they win their case) ? This whole situation is a disaster for everyone (staff, management, passengers) and the absolute last thing needed when the railway desperately needs to encourage useage.

The problem railway management, and Transport Scotland have, is that, given the fall in passenger revenues thanks to Covid, the only possible source of additional funds for paying staff more for overtime is increased taxpayer subsidy; A political minefield !

 

[father_jack]

Rostering will still take place. Individuals don't give strike notice, the union does. The company doesn't know who is a union member, and union members still have free will to work should they choose. Also should strike action be called off last minute, it would be foolish for the company not to have a plan in place. Individuals may also at a later date claim they were available to work but simply not rostered, leading to claims for rest day payments etc.

Up the workers in that case I say. For info though there have been efforts from the unions to get members on direct debit rather than paybill deductions due to donkeys years ago certain train operators withdrawing the paybill deduction system (which in fairness must have cost the operator money to accommodate the enemy !) and union membership dropped drastically as a result because the dues had to be personally collected by the unions.

 

[the sniper]

AIUI yes.

Thanks.

There must surely come a point when those on strike have lost more income through missed Sunday shifts than they would gain from higher overtime payments (if they win their case) ? This whole situation is a disaster for everyone (staff, management, passengers) and the absolute last thing needed when the railway desperately needs to encourage useage.

Many disputes are more about principle and the avoidance of a precedent being set than short term financial loss/gain.

 

[ComUtoR]

There must surely come a point when those on strike have lost more income through missed Sunday shifts than they would gain from higher overtime payments (if they win their case) ?

And vice versa. How much is it costing the TOC in cancellations, delayes etc. ? Both sides are digging their heels in.

 

[Robertj21a]

And vice versa. How much is it costing the TOC in cancellations, delayes etc. ? Both sides are digging their heels in.

Perhaps they should cancel ALL Scotrail services on Sundays ?. At least everyone would then know where they stand.

 

[Bald Rick]

And vice versa. How much is it costing the TOC in cancellations, delayes etc. ? Both sides are digging their heels in.

Isn’t their ‘emergency’ contract with TS cost plus, with TS taking revenue risk? If so, it will be costing very little.

 

[ComUtoR]

Isn’t their ‘emergency’ contract with TS cost plus, with TS taking revenue risk? If so, it will be costing very little.

Not a clue about contracts but it isn't so much about the loss in revenue to the TOC but the cost in fines and penalties. Who is funding that bill ?

 

[GLC]

Not a clue about contracts but it isn't so much about the loss in revenue to the TOC but the cost in fines and penalties. Who is funding that bill ?

I’m not sure about the current status of these things, but (assuming I am reading this correctly!) https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/49496/ema-abellio-scotrail-sept-2020.pdf the EMA2 funding specifically postponed performance related penalties. So assuming that has continued, there is no bill to fund

 

[snookertam]

Interesting that we might not notice there's strike action on every Sunday just now - back at the start of the dispute ScotRail were very keen to let all and sundry know that it was all the fault of the RMT for asking for more money and weren't slow to use their social media to influence the public against the union.

They seemed to stop when it finally twigged that they were getting pelters for it.