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ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

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Glenn1969

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6 strike days have been announced including this Sunday and Easter Sunday plus a rest day working ban and conductors not performing higher grade duties. Given that we are still in a pandemic what exactly are they trying to achieve?
 
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6Z09

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6 strike days have been announced including this Sunday and Easter Sunday plus a rest day working ban and conductors not performing higher grade duties. Given that we are still in a pandemic what exactly are they trying to achieve?
Currently on Sundays there's a better service than during the week!
For example, half hour all evening on the E&G via Falkirk High .
A fair number of people travelling, wether or not these journeys are essential is a different matter.
 

route101

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Currently on Sundays there's a better service than during the week!
For example, half hour all evening on the E&G via Falkirk High .
A fair number of people travelling, wether or not these journeys are essential is a different matter.
I think at the moment the services finish early. Noticed more travelling in the last month, schoolkids and people dipping their toes in the water.
 

alangla

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I think at the moment the services finish early. Noticed more travelling in the last month, schoolkids and people dipping their toes in the water.
They don't on a Sunday, bizarrely. Services that normally tail off at about 9:30pm Mon-Sat run till about midnight on a Sunday as per the "normal" timetable.

Have a look here - Rutherglen last Sunday evening - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/RUT/2021-03-21/2000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Rutherglen tonight - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/RUT/2021-03-25/2000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Similarly, Linlithgow tonight - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/LIN/2021-03-25/2000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
Last Sunday - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/LIN/2021-03-21/2000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
 

Robertj21a

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Quite simply, the union is trying to achieve the best outcome for its members. The membership is who they are answerable to, not the public at large, not the TOC and not the government.

That said, your wider point is an excellent one, and is one which many of us in the industry are concerned about. There is a wider need to attract people back to using the railway after months of ridiculous scaremongering by the government and the TOCs themselves.

There is a perception within the industry (certainly the operational bits of it) that the railway exists in a world of its own, and that the wider economic picture is irrelevant. Rightly or wrongly that’s a viewpoint that has proven accurate so far.

This dispute (note, not strike) is a separate issue to that, though. The railways were well patronised prior to Covid and there’s no reason to suppose that they won’t be again, a few months hence.
A 'perception that the railway exists in a world of its own' probably sums up how many of the general public view the railway/staff/unions nowadays. Often disconnected from the realities of the world at large may be another view.
 

bluesfromagun

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6 strike days have been announced including this Sunday and Easter Sunday plus a rest day working ban and conductors not performing higher grade duties. Given that we are still in a pandemic what exactly are they trying to achieve?
They aren't actually strikes, all Sundays are overtime for traincrew - i.e. you are contracted 35hrs a week, it doesn't include Sundays. It's a legacy BR thing from when it was a much reduced service on Sundays.
So it is a nice way to make a point from the RMT side of things, the members still get their salary and they can say "they aren't on strike, they just aren't working overtime".
I should add, for those who don't work in the industry, that the Sunday 'outside' the working week is still fairly common with a lot of TOCs. Companies like GNER and Virgin WC quickly negotiated with the unions to make Sunday part of the working week, giving a boost to the salaries of their staff to recompense them for the loss of OT Sundays. This is one of the reasons that LNER etc seem to offer such high driver salaries compared to others.
 
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Carlisle

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you are contracted 35hrs a week, it doesn't include Sundays. It's a legacy BR thing from when it was a much reduced service on Sundays.
Wasn’t it a 39 hour contract under BR & the reduction to 35 came after privatisation ?
 

Bald Rick

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all Sundays are overtime for traincrew - i.e. you are contracted 35hrs a week, it doesn't include Sundays

Not for all train crew, as you say elsewhere.

Some TOCs have Sundays in the working week and in the roster. If you are rostered the Sunday you work it (unless you take leave, or do a shift swap etc), and you get no extra pay.

Some TOCs have Sundays in the roster, but not in the working week. If you are rostered Sunday you work it (unless you take leave etc, or can find someone else who wants to work it), but you get extra pay.

Some TOCs have Sundays out of the week and roster, which means they rely on volunteers only, and all get extra pay.
 

scotraildriver

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Overtime doesn't mean voluntary. All Scotrail staff get paid extra for Sundays but you MUST work your rostered Sundays, even though you get paid extra. You are contracted to work rostered Sundays. It's not optional and Sunday shifts are not covered by volunteers.
 

scotraildriver

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The roster is structured so that every Sunday turn appears in a/the Link?

Can Scotrail Guards book AL for a Sunday?
Yes all the turns are covered in the link. The Sundays before and after time off are part of annual leave, so if you have a booked one it needs to be covered. There are rostered spares on a Sunday though, it wouldn't necessarily be a volunteer.
 

the sniper

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Yes all the turns are covered in the link. The Sundays before and after time off are part of annual leave, so if you have a booked one it needs to be covered. There are rostered spares on a Sunday though, it wouldn't necessarily be a volunteer.

How is non attendance for Sunday turns usually punished in Scotrail?
 

scotraildriver

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How is non attendance for Sunday turns usually punished in Scotrail?
I've never heard of non attendance for a Sunday. Its part of your contract so it would be dealt with the same way as any other non attendance. People don't just not turn up for goodness sake.
 

the sniper

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People don't just not turn up for goodness sake.

That's how 'contractually committed' outside Sundays work in some other TOCs... :lol:

There being no mechanism to book AL on them has left cracks that have been tested/exploited elsewhere. Scotrail's Guards contract may well have been written in more explicit terms though, admittedly.
 

380101

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I've never heard of non attendance for a Sunday. Its part of your contract so it would be dealt with the same way as any other non attendance. People don't just not turn up for goodness sake.

"Hello TCS, I'll not be out tomorrow. Book me off sick please" is by the most common way that drivers within ScotRail get out of book Sundays. Tried and tested method and nothing can be done by management. Plenty do it and in my 10 years in the place have only once known of a driver being disciplined for not turning out and thats because he forgot to call in.
 

Brissle Girl

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“Nothing can be done by management” should read “Management is not inclined to rock the boat by trying to address the issue”.

Most businesses are well able to monitor trends in sickness absence, and particular patterns (eg an unexplained high frequency of absence on a given day - often Mon or Fri for those working a 5 day week), will be managed accordingly.
 

43096

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“Nothing can be done by management” should read “Management is not inclined to rock the boat by trying to address the issue”.

Most businesses are well able to monitor trends in sickness absence, and particular patterns (eg an unexplained high frequency of absence on a given day - often Mon or Fri for those working a 5 day week), will be managed accordingly.
Indeed. Once you have dates of sickness, it’s a simple task to work out the day of the week and then look at patterns.
 

Wyrleybart

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“Nothing can be done by management” should read “Management is not inclined to rock the boat by trying to address the issue”.

Most businesses are well able to monitor trends in sickness absence, and particular patterns (eg an unexplained high frequency of absence on a given day - often Mon or Fri for those working a 5 day week), will be managed accordingly.

That trusty old tool MFA* sits gathering dust on the top shelf in the HR office. Does it ever get used these days.

* = Managing for attendance
 

Chriso

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I think this shows just what a problem ticketless travel is currently and how difficult it will be to get people to pay again after a year of free travel in certain areas.
 

Starmill

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I think this shows just what a problem ticketless travel is currently and how difficult it will be to get people to pay again after a year of free travel in certain areas.
Why do you link this with industrial relations?
 

SuperNova

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Why do you link this with industrial relations?
Surely it's clear - at times during the pandemic conductors haven't been doing revenue protection work, staying in their back cab. That is a causation of industrial relations over safety. There's an argument on both sides of course, but there are those who still won't and are in essence doing themselves out of a job in the long run (DOO).
 

Starmill

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Surely it's clear - at times during the pandemic conductors haven't been doing revenue protection work, staying in their back cab. That is a causation of industrial relations over safety. There's an argument on both sides of course, but there are those who still won't and are in essence doing themselves out of a job in the long run (DOO).
No, not really. Conductors are only a secondary part of revenue protection capability and they have primary duties to consider that don't include revenue protection. Furthermore, suspension of revenue protection duties has been by agreement with the company at ScotRail. So why would that cause industrial relations damage?
 

66787

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Surely it's clear - at times during the pandemic conductors haven't been doing revenue protection work, staying in their back cab. That is a causation of industrial relations over safety. There's an argument on both sides of course, but there are those who still won't and are in essence doing themselves out of a job in the long run (DOO).
However this isn’t an industrial dispute over safety, so to link this dispute to ticketless travel and revenue protection duties boggles the mind.

The primary role of the conductor will at all times be the safety of the train and those onboard. Revenue will never come first, pandemic or not.
 

Chriso

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I think this shows just what a problem ticketless travel is currently and how difficult it will be to get people to pay again after a year of free travel in certain areas.

Apologies I meant to add this to the trapped in a train thread not sure what happened there
 

43066

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A 'perception that the railway exists in a world of its own' probably sums up how many of the general public view the railway/staff/unions nowadays. Often disconnected from the realities of the world at large may be another view.

If that’s the view, it’s generally an inaccurate one. Most rail-staff I know are more grateful than ever to be in what is generally acknowledged to be relatively secure, pretty well paid employment. Many of us have worked in other industries and are fully aware of how precarious things are for many people.

There is certainly a strong bias against unionised industries both in the media and amongst the public at large. Perhaps people should stop to consider why this is, and exactly who benefits from it (clue: it isn’t your average wage slave). Especially at a time when more people than ever are working in insecure, zero hours contract type work.

Unfortunately these discussions often seem to bring out an aspect of human nature where people would prefer to see other groups of workers made worse off, than focus on improving things for themselves.

At a time when the government can apparently afford to pay people £30k to do nothing, so it sticks in the craw a little for workers who have been going to work throughout the pandemic to be told there’s nothing left for them!

"Hello TCS, I'll not be out tomorrow. Book me off sick please" is by the most common way that drivers within ScotRail get out of book Sundays. Tried and tested method and nothing can be done by management. Plenty do it and in my 10 years in the place have only once known of a driver being disciplined for not turning out and thats because he forgot to call in.

Indeed. Once you have dates of sickness, it’s a simple task to work out the day of the week and then look at patterns.

I have to say I’d be absolutely staggered if Scotrail guards were able to do what @380101 claims, and I would take that claim with a very large pinch of salt.

I’ve worked for two TOCs so far, both have guards and drivers represented by the same unions as Scotrail, both have active and relevant MFA policies. These policies would catch exactly this kind of sickness absence and there’s not a thing the union could do about it (apart from ensure the policy is followed correctly).
 
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