RMT Strike affecting London Underground services from 23rd to 28th July; ASLEF Strike action on 26th and 28th July. (Strike now suspended)

[357]

Completely different company - Arriva Rail London.

Strangely enough I think I and most other members know that. You've quoted my post in order to correct me, while disregarding the quote that was included, the context, and the fact that fatigue works the same whoever is on your pay slip.

Hope that post made you feel good.

 

[Florence Rox]

I suspect there will be some services on strike days - the problem for TFL management is that they won't know who is coming to work until the staff clock in/don't clock in. There are various reasons - the pension fund, the staff cuts meaning stations will be on minimum numbers most the time with staff being on their own on a dateline. I work at a busy central London station and sometimes there are 4-5 people always trying to get help at the same time. It can take 10 minutes to deal with a family of tourists wanting ticketing advice, especially if English is not their first language. Assaults on staff are very common and lone working makes us feel far more exposed.

 

[Goldfish62]

Strangely enough I think I and most other members know that. You've quoted my post in order to correct me, while disregarding the quote that was included, the context, and the fact that fatigue works the same whoever is on your pay slip.

Hope that post made you feel good.

Hi. I've re-read your post and the attached quote. Nope, I'm happy that what I posted was in context.

Sorry if that upsets you.

 

[leytongabriel]

Is it even possible to cut Station Staffing levels anymore? As Boris during his time as Mayor reduced the amount of station staff to bare minimum which has accounted for station closures

I believe they are planning to cut out a whole layer of station staff supervisors

 

[whoosh]

The other big thing going on in TFL is a proposal to make significant changes to the working arrangements for train operators. Expect to see *much* more on that one over the coming year or two.

Indeed! At depots where there are rotas for different times of the day - early mornings, 'reasonable time' mornings, early afternoons, late afternoon/evenings, nights, and mixed, will all be abolished and there will be one rota.

'Flexible cover' weeks every seven weeks, where for 50% of them you won't know what duties you'll be on, or what or how many days off you've got for that week until the Thursday (or it might be the Friday?) before, and the other 50% you won't find out what duty you'll be on until 04:00 the previous day.

Bearing in mind a lot of Underground workers travel into London (at unsocial times) as its so expensive to live there. How do you plan your home life and travel to/from work with such late notice uncertainty?

 

[Dstock7080]

ASLEF has now joined the strike on 26 and 28 July, the same days as all RMT members will be taking action

ASLEF members on London Underground will strike on Wednesday 26th and Friday 28th of July.

This afternoon the Executive Committee of ASLEF the train drivers union has decided to give London Underground notice that our members across London Underground will strike on Wednesday 26th and Friday 28th of July.Colleagues in the RMT will be taking action at the same time.Our strategy has...

www.aslefdistrict8.org

 

[Thirteen]

ASLEF has now joined the strike on 26 and 28 July, the same days as all RMT members will be taking action

ASLEF members on London Underground will strike on Wednesday 26th and Friday 28th of July.

This afternoon the Executive Committee of ASLEF the train drivers union has decided to give London Underground notice that our members across London Underground will strike on Wednesday 26th and Friday 28th of July.Colleagues in the RMT will be taking action at the same time.Our strategy has...

www.aslefdistrict8.org

We can expect no service at all on those days then.

 

[Dstock7080]

That was highly likely considering the RMT all staff action on those days.

 

[Snow1964]

That was highly likely considering the RMT all staff action on those days.

I don't really see why they picked the same days, if you want to get noticed, you disrupt a good day, not one where little is probably running anyway. And if really want to be noticed would do something like midday to midday following day.

Perhaps you can explain what you think is gained by being in shadows of another unions dispute on same dates that made them pick same days.

 

[Mawkie]

Perhaps you can explain what you think is gained by being in shadows of another unions dispute on same dates that made them pick same days.

ASLEF members don't come in on RMT strike days and vice versa. The benefit of the RMT is that it's an all-grades union - so RMT can call a week of strike action, but station staff and train ops will 'only' lose 2 days pay as their strike days are 26th and 28th. (With the other days being other grades.)

If ASLEF called 25th and 27th, then train ops from both unions would lose 4 days pay for no real benefit.

ASLEF are known as the more 'reasonable' union in TfL circles, so the fact they've even called strike action is significant.

The sight of combined ASLEF and RMT flags being waved on the pickets lines outside stations and depots will not cause many happy faces at TfL towers and they seem to care deeply about the 'metrics' these days.

 

[Tubeboy]

I believe they are planning to cut out a whole layer of station staff supervisors

Incorrect. It’s station managers who are being culled if TFL get their way.

It’s going full circle. Station supervisors were ‘promoted’ to the customer service manager role. Extra responsibilities for no extra reward.

So, as predicted by staff and the unions back in 2015 there are far too many managers, and not enough supervisors, and the company have finally admitted this is the case.

Can’t remember the exact numbers, but all CSMs will have to do selection tests for the role they currently do. Reapply for their own job. Those who do well keep their positions. Those who don’t will be demoted to station supervisor. TFL have not guaranteed protection of earnings for any downgraded staff. That naturally has caused lots of anger and worry.

Also on the stations, cover areas are being expanded. The number of stations I work at will almost double. Therefore increased travel time.

 

[winks]

the strikes in relation to London Underground are nothing to do with pay as their is a multi-year deal in progress which has not expired. This isn’t about redundancies either as c600 vacant posts will be removed.

On the pension proposals again, TFL seem to favour moving the LU pension scheme into the Local Govt Pension which has to be said is one of the best schemes in the country. It has an accrual rate of 1/49 which is more generous than other public sector pensions.

The RMT really are stretching the truth here when they claim 30% could be wiped off staff members pensions.

 

[Dstock7080]

the strikes in relation to London Underground are nothing to do with pay as their is a multi-year deal in progress which has not expired.

For operational staff the multi-year deal expired on 1 April 2023, a pay claim has been submitted by the Unions.

London Underground pay talks update. May 18th 2023.

This afternoon ASLEF and the other trade unions met management to hear their response to our pay claims. ASLEF want an inflation linked pay rise that protects our members living standards and, in line with our national policy, a reduction in working hours toward a 4-day, 32-hour week. Our claim...

www.aslefdistrict8.org

This afternoon ASLEF and the other trade unions met management to hear their response to our pay claims.

4% now offered by LU.

 

[Florence Rox]

The 4% offer will be the best and final offer from TFL to the underground staff. However, negotiations are still at an earlier stage and we are some way from strike action. I work in a busy underground station, and several of my colleagues would accept 4% as I don't believe we would gain anything by striking, other than handing the next GE to the tories. The cuts to station staff will result in a greatly increased workload for us, and less overtime available for those who rely on it. It will be much more difficult to make up for lost pay on strike days by doing overtime as well.

 

[Silver Cobra]

ASLEF has now joined the strike on 26 and 28 July, the same days as all RMT members will be taking action

ASLEF members on London Underground will strike on Wednesday 26th and Friday 28th of July.

This afternoon the Executive Committee of ASLEF the train drivers union has decided to give London Underground notice that our members across London Underground will strike on Wednesday 26th and Friday 28th of July.Colleagues in the RMT will be taking action at the same time.Our strategy has...

www.aslefdistrict8.org

I'll edit the opening post to include this new information.

 

[Tubeboy]

TFL have now said that any managers downgraded to supervisors will receive 3 years of protected earnings. So you were ‘mapped or ‘promoted’ into the role for no extra money, and will now potentially receive a heft pay cut as you are denoted to a supervisor salary. Very nice of TFL, whilst the higher ups receive huge bonuses.

 

[Dstock7080]

the Unite union will also now be taking action on LU 26 and 28 July.
Tube strike: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66187705

 

[Mawkie]

TFL have now said that any managers downgraded to supervisors will receive 3 years of protected earnings.

I didn't know that. Lack of protected earnings was one of the many reasons the unions were so outraged.

the Unite union will also now be taking action on LU 26 and 28 July.

Sharon Graham has been very successful over the last 18 months.

 

[bramling]

The 4% offer will be the best and final offer from TFL to the underground staff. However, negotiations are still at an earlier stage and we are some way from strike action. I work in a busy underground station, and several of my colleagues would accept 4% as I don't believe we would gain anything by striking, other than handing the next GE to the tories. The cuts to station staff will result in a greatly increased workload for us, and less overtime available for those who rely on it. It will be much more difficult to make up for lost pay on strike days by doing overtime as well.

How does the 4% compare to the commissioner’s pay increase?

 

[winks]

3 years pay protection is still pretty decent - what’s the differential between the two pay grades? There will also be further payrises in the intervening years…

 

[Mojo]

3 years pay protection is still pretty decent - what’s the differential between the two pay grades? There will also be further payrises in the intervening years…

It depends what grade and pay they held in the former structure as the pay bands are quite large because staff were mapped across on their previous salaries (which have subsequently risen in line with everyone else). At the most extreme end, Customer Service Managers that were formerly Duty Station Managers and who end up as Supervisors could face a pay drop in excess of £33k.

 

[DMU180]

Apologies if this is a basic question but does anyone have any idea whether national rail TOCs will offer ticket easements on the TFL strike days to allow you to travel on a different day?

Currently booked to Euston on 26 July but thinking of changing to 25 July instead.

 

[bramling]

It depends what grade and pay they held in the former structure as the pay bands are quite large because staff were mapped across on their previous salaries (which have subsequently risen in line with everyone else). At the most extreme end, Customer Service Managers that were formerly Duty Station Managers and who end up as Supervisors could face a pay drop in excess of £33k.

Doesn’t smack of a healthy company that someone who has accrued all the knowledge and experience (and presumably at some point deemed to possess the skills and qualities) required to be a DSM finds themselves as a supervisor with that level of pay cut.

Do TFL have any strategic plan, or do they simply go where the wind blows?

 

[Daniel]

It depends what grade and pay they held in the former structure as the pay bands are quite large because staff were mapped across on their previous salaries (which have subsequently risen in line with everyone else). At the most extreme end, Customer Service Managers that were formerly Duty Station Managers and who end up as Supervisors could face a pay drop in excess of £33k.

Pretty sure the company has said internally that those who were DSM and made CSM(X) will be automatically made the new CSM without having to apply, therefore the highest paycut at risk would, I imagine, be lower

 

[Tubeboy]

From the internal TFL yammer group, some CSM’s have said they will lose anything from. 8-15k per annum.

 

[kw12]

From the internal TFL yammer group, some CSM’s have said they will lose anything from. 8-15k per annum.

Incorrect. It’s station managers who are being culled if TFL get their way.

It’s going full circle. Station supervisors were ‘promoted’ to the customer service manager role. Extra responsibilities for no extra reward.

So, as predicted by staff and the unions back in 2015 there are far too many managers, and not enough supervisors, and the company have finally admitted this is the case.

Can’t remember the exact numbers, but all CSMs will have to do selection tests for the role they currently do. Reapply for their own job. Those who do well keep their positions. Those who don’t will be demoted to station supervisor. TFL have not guaranteed protection of earnings for any downgraded staff. That naturally has caused lots of anger and worry.

Also on the stations, cover areas are being expanded. The number of stations I work at will almost double. Therefore increased travel time.

I'm confused. This states that station supervisors were 'promoted' to managers for no extra reward. To me "no extra reward" means "the same salary/earnings", in which case (even without any protection of earnings) there would be no loss of earnings if demoted back to supervisor. What have I misunderstood or overlooked?

 

[SunSeeker]

I'm confused. This states that station supervisors were 'promoted' to managers for no extra reward. To me "no extra reward" means "the same salary/earnings", in which case (even without any protection of earnings) there would be no loss of earnings if demoted back to supervisor. What have I misunderstood or overlooked?

These are just rough, not accurate figures to keep it simple to understand.

Previously before Fit for the Future changes:
Manager - £60k
Supervisor - £50k

Most of the Managers got promoted to Area Managers. Supervisors were forced to become Managers but a newly created role, same 50k salary with additional responsibilities. At the same time a new Supervisor role created, but at 40k.

Fast forward to now, and the company wants those now Managers to go back to Supervisor, but after the POE for their £50k it would be on the new £40k salary.

It's just all a way to lower salaries for roles.

 

[Mawkie]

At the same time a new Supervisor role created, but at 40k.

Quite. If you were a Station Assistant Multi-functional (SAMF) on £40k a year, you were mapped into these new Customer Service Supervisor (CSS) roles - with all the extra responsibility of running a station, but no extra cash.

The old Station Supervisors (SS 1) were mapped into Customer Service Manager (CSM) roles, with all the people management responsibilities, but no extra cash.

Of course I've massively simplified it here and doesn't take account of the different pay grades within each grade - there are some CSM3s who earn less than a CSS1!

Also, some CSS2s have been waiting since Fit for the Future (7 years ago) to be moved to nominated area group. Imagine it's 2016, and you are living in Essex, working at some east end station, and you got 'mapped' into Heathrow area with the new changes.

With the new influx of downgraded CSMs coming, the Company is being coy about whether these staff with essentially 'jump the waiting list' for an area group that people have been waiting years to get to.

As a last point, I wonder if the Company's ultimate plan all along was to do this and reduce the wage bill. If this is the case, then how long will it be before CSSs get a letter of consultation and offer of severance or redeployment?

 

[kw12]

These are just rough, not accurate figures to keep it simple to understand.

Previously before Fit for the Future changes:
Manager - £60k
Supervisor - £50k

Most of the Managers got promoted to Area Managers. Supervisors were forced to become Managers but a newly created role, same 50k salary with additional responsibilities. At the same time a new Supervisor role created, but at 40k.

Fast forward to now, and the company wants those now Managers to go back to Supervisor, but after the POE for their £50k it would be on the new £40k salary.

It's just all a way to lower salaries for roles.

Thank you for the explanation. I understand now!

 

[Thirteen]

I know there's planned strike action on the 29th July on the TOCs but why would London Underground have severe disruption on that day?