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RMT to fight the cuts

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WestRiding

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It's going to be an interesting year for employees by the looks of it.


RMT launches industry wide campaign to bust the transport workers pay freeze

SPECIALIST TRANSPORT UNION RMT has launched a campaign today to bust through a Government-led pay freeze that is being imposed on transport staff – the same workers who have kept Britain moving throughout the COVID pandemic at well-documented personal risk.
 
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Horizon22

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Interesting, but I don't think the optics are going to play well. For me personally (and I imagine many train crew), having fewer shifts & more "spare at home" has more than compensated for a pay rise and I know some of the usual tasks have been suspended. I'm not saying some haven't worked extra and it has been a challenging time but this is hardly the only industry where this has happened. This all in a time where there has been an exceptional amount of subsidy given. Some will need to have a cold hard dose of reality, as pay raises would probably lead to job cuts, ultimately.
 

Journeyman

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Put it this way - it doesn't sit well with people who have seen an income drop of 90% with absolutely no government assistance.

People like me.
 

Bletchleyite

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With almost nobody in any industry in receipt of a pay rise this year, and many in receipt of a cut and job losses, this will cause them severe damage. Very stupid indeed.
 

LowLevel

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Interesting, but I don't think the optics are going to play well. For me personally (and I imagine many train crew), having fewer shifts & more "spare at home" has more than compensated for a pay rise and I know some of the usual tasks have been suspended. I'm not saying some haven't worked extra and it has been a challenging time but this is hardly the only industry where this has happened. This all in a time where there has been an exceptional amount of subsidy given. Some will need to have a cold hard dose of reality, as pay raises would probably lead to job cuts, ultimately.

Indeed. When we were asked our views on a pay rise by the RMT I replied saying that in my view I had been amply compensated with spare at home and very short shifts on full pay. I was quite surprised by the amount of people who disagreed with me and were of the opinion that what they'd been up to was akin to spending their days in a burning building waiting to be killed at any moment by one of the 3 or 4 Resident Evil zombies (I mean passengers) daring to enter their trains.
 

A0

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It's time the sensible majority of union members actually started voting for sensible leadership.

For some reason - and it's happening with Unite at the moment - it always seems to be the hard-left headbangers, intent on revolution, rather than pragmatists who are more interested in looking to improve their member's position and opportunities. I'm old enough to remember the likes of Eric Hammond, Bill Jordan, Sid Weighell or Frank Chapple. Even if you didn't necessarily agree with their politics you could at least respect their positions and reasons for holding them.
 

Horizon22

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Indeed. When we were asked our views on a pay rise by the RMT I replied saying that in my view I had been amply compensated with spare at home and very short shifts on full pay. I was quite surprised by the amount of people who disagreed with me and were of the opinion that what they'd been up to was akin to spending their days in a burning building waiting to be killed at any moment by one of the 3 or 4 Resident Evil zombies (I mean passengers) daring to enter their trains.

Yes some (albeit quite a small minority in my experience) seem to think that passengers are walking diseases to be kept away from trains and not at all interacted with - I did mention to one or two that we somewhat need them if you don't want to see hundreds of job cuts which gave me a few death stares...
 

LNW-GW Joint

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One new problem for the government is the threat of price inflation, as supply chain market forces bite (fuel, clothes, Brexit etc).
It's already over 2%, after being near zero for many months.
 

Bald Rick

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It's time the sensible majority of union members actually started voting for sensible leadership.

The RMT membership actually did, ie voting for the most moderate candidate available.
 

WestRiding

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Its not just basic wages though, no pay rise affects the pension. It's a pay cut. Council Rates, up. Shopping, up. Petrol, up. Gas and Electricity, up. Even things like Sky TV, up. It's not a freeze, its a cut.
 

LowLevel

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It's time the sensible majority of union members actually started voting for sensible leadership.

For some reason - and it's happening with Unite at the moment - it always seems to be the hard-left headbangers, intent on revolution, rather than pragmatists who are more interested in looking to improve their member's position and opportunities. I'm old enough to remember the likes of Eric Hammond, Bill Jordan, Sid Weighell or Frank Chapple. Even if you didn't necessarily agree with their politics you could at least respect their positions and reasons for holding them.

Mick Lynch is pretty moderate by RMT standards.

However if you actually know your union history rather than just listening to the press, so was one Bob Crow - he was widely respected as a very pragmatic and sensible man, by both railway management and his membership. It was a crying shame that he passed so young.
 

Bletchleyite

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Its not just basic wages though, no pay rise affects the pension. It's a pay cut. Council Rates, up. Shopping, up. Petrol, up. Gas and Electricity, up. Even things like Sky TV, up. It's not a freeze, its a cut.

Which pretty much all other employees the country over are also experiencing.

It's like a postwar scenario. Everyone will be down.
 

WestRiding

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Which pretty much all other employees the country over are also experiencing.

It's like a postwar scenario. Everyone will be down.
It is, I agree. But lets not get bogged down in other industries. That's upto them to fight.
 

Bletchleyite

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It is, I agree. But lets not get bogged down in other industries. That's upto them to fight.

It's wrong to fight it. It is what it is. Everyone is in the same position and it's just how it'll be for the next few years.

The campaign needs to be to avoid closures and protect against job losses, as well as for restraint on senior management pay.
 

WestRiding

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It might not be so bad if it was a freeze (cut) for a year. But once accepted once, it will be expected of us year after year, to the point you may as well leave the railway because you're not that much worse off working in McDonald's or what ever. Where does it stop.
 

A0

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Mick Lynch is pretty moderate by RMT standards.

However if you actually know your union history rather than just listening to the press, so was one Bob Crow - he was widely respected as a very pragmatic and sensible man, by both railway management and his membership. It was a crying shame that he passed so young.

Thank you for pre-judging where I get my views from. As it happens I've studied politics as an interested observer for over 20 years and along the way have read various political autobiographies from both right and left. I don't need the Daily Mail or the Guardian to tell me about the intransigence of some of the trade unions and more importantly some of their leadership.

That Lynch is 'moderate by RMT standards' tells you more about the quality and calibre of the candidates that are being offered up for leadership than anything else.
 

Bletchleyite

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It might not be so bad if it was a freeze (cut) for a year. But once accepted once, it will be expected of us year after year, to the point you may as well leave the railway because you're not that much worse off working in McDonald's or what ever. Where does it stop.

McDonald's staff won't be getting a pay rise either. It's literally everybody. So no, that won't happen.

When the economy has started to recover properly, then come pay rises.
 

A0

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It might not be so bad if it was a freeze (cut) for a year. But once accepted once, it will be expected of us year after year, to the point you may as well leave the railway because you're not that much worse off working in McDonald's or what ever. Where does it stop.

Well, when McDonalds starts offering front of house jobs paying upwards of £ 40k, you may have a point. But since they don't - and are unlikely to do so any time soon, I'd respectfully suggest you're wrong.
 

CAF397

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I agree with most comments earlier on.

I had spare at home shifts and shorter shifts. I've also known several people close to me who have been made redundant.

There's thousands of travel and tourism employees still on furlough on 80% wages for over a year who will be tightening their belts and worrying about the future.

I didn't have a pay rise in 2020, but in the current climate I could have easily found myself on furlough.

A payrise this year? Well that's looking unlikely. But going out on strike whilst we are still assessing the full impact on the country? Risky business.
 

Bald Rick

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Its not just basic wages though, no pay rise affects the pension. It's a pay cut. Council Rates, up. Shopping, up. Petrol, up. Gas and Electricity, up. Even things like Sky TV, up. It's not a freeze, its a cut.

Petrol is cheaper than it was 10 years ago. As are many food prices. And if it’s that difficult, give up Sky Tv! Many people manage perfectly fine without it.


However if you actually know your union history rather than just listening to the press, so was one Bob Crow - he was widely respected as a very pragmatic and sensible man, by both railway management and his membership.

Indeed. And he knew how to ‘play the game’ both with employers, but more importantly with the internal politics of the RMT which is arguably more difficult. Albeit he did have a nasty streak in him; that only came out occasionally.
 

LowLevel

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Thank you for pre-judging where I get my views from. As it happens I've studied politics as an interested observer for over 20 years and along the way have read various political autobiographies from both right and left. I don't need the Daily Mail or the Guardian to tell me about the intransigence of some of the trade unions and more importantly some of their leadership.

That Lynch is 'moderate by RMT standards' tells you more about the quality and calibre of the candidates that are being offered up for leadership than anything else.

For right or for wrong though they've been hugely successful at what they do, at least on the railway. Whether they will change tack going forward is perhaps a different debate.
 

WestRiding

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Petrol is cheaper than it was 10 years ago. As are many food prices. And if it’s that difficult, give up Sky Tv! Many people manage perfectly fine without it.

News from 2011
Motoring groups described the increased cost of motoring as the "road to misery" as fuel monitoring group Experian Catalist said the average price of a litre of diesel had hit 133.26p and petrol 128.6p.
Its 131.9 round here for petrol.
 

Horizon22

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Its not just basic wages though, no pay rise affects the pension. It's a pay cut. Council Rates, up. Shopping, up. Petrol, up. Gas and Electricity, up. Even things like Sky TV, up. It's not a freeze, its a cut.

Which is understandable - but everyone is going through the same thing. Not saying its right, and I'm no fan of a "race to the bottom" but when the NHS are apparently barely deserving of a pay rise, I find it highly unlikely any other 'public' sector service is going to be at present.
 

WestRiding

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Which is understandable - but everyone is going through the same thing. Not saying its right, and I'm no fan of a "race to the bottom" but when the NHS are apparently barely deserving of a pay rise, I find it highly unlikely any other 'public' sector service is going to be at present.
Race to the Bottom. That's exactly how it feels.
 

A0

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For right or for wrong though they've been hugely successful at what they do, at least on the railway. Whether they will change tack going forward is perhaps a different debate.

Depends how you define success - and the old adage about lose the battle to win the war comes to mind. They've won an awful lot of battles - as did the NUM - ultimately if you pick the wrong fight, you'll lose.

Race to the Bottom. That's exactly how it feels.

That's one of those trite, meaningless comments.

Most in the public sector - and I include in that the rail workers - have seen pay increases in the last 10 years, maybe not covering inflation, but usually more than those in the private sector (who fund the public sector) have recevied.

This article https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/public-sector-workers-pay-freeze-penalty-b1776782.html makes the point that

"Public sector workers have traditionally still enjoyed a pay premium over private sector workers with similar characteristics doing similar jobs.
A decade of pay restraint since 2010 had brought this pay premium down to zero by 2019, but the pandemic has changed the relationship between public and private sector pay yet again, it states."

and "The Earnings Outlook notes however that while the public sector pay premium is a poor justification for the coming pay freeze, other factors will have played a bigger role in the chancellor’s decision. According to the report workers affected by the freeze live in relatively high-income households – with their typical income of £36,300 well above that of private sector workers (£28,700) and public sector workers not affected by the freeze (£28,200)."

That's before you factor in the favourable pension schemes available in the public sector, but priced out of the private sector firstly as a consequence of that good socialist Robert Maxwell's pillaging of the MGN pension scheme and then that other good socialist, Gordon Brown's tinkering which basically rendered such schemes unviable for the private sector.
 
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Ashley Hill

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Nobody at my depot was furloughed,we had easy turns,short days and plenty of home spares. Why fight for a pay rise at this moment in time? Job security is my number one priority at the moment what with the governments plans for the railway.
As for Mick Lynch he's just another Fred Kite relic from a union that refuses to modernise.
 

Scotrail88

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But the Union want nationalisation which means government run. Now the government control, and not giving a wage rise how does that fit the narrative??
 

Wolfie

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Its not just basic wages though, no pay rise affects the pension. It's a pay cut. Council Rates, up. Shopping, up. Petrol, up. Gas and Electricity, up. Even things like Sky TV, up. It's not a freeze, its a cut.
True. Something which the public sector is all too familiar with after 10 years of it.
 
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