RMT to fight the cuts

[RT4038]

After working every day through the pandemic, after being lauded by management for being key workers, sacrificing weekends, giving up annual leave to cover shifts, working unsociable hours having to accept new rosters that are awful and leave you worse off each month.
I’m sorry...but F this we deserve to have a pay rise.
And if you don’t work in the industry then as far as I’m concerned your views are fairly irrelevant.

You may have been lauded by management as key workers, but in reality you were running empty trains about, irrelevant to the lives of most, and cushioned from being furloughed on government minimums.

In an industry that has become an irrelevance to so many people, and relies on so much taxpayer support, I would suggest that the views of everyone, including those outside the railway cocoon, are quite relevant.

 

[Stigy]

Having proven that the economy can work without people going into London every day, the country is in a great position to survive a rail strike. Now is the time for the tories to take a swinging axe to much of it.

As for "great personal risk" of train drivers sitting on their own in a closed cab, you're having a laugh. Supermarket workers, teachers, dentists, nurses, care home staff, undertakers, ambulance staff, police and prison officers, sure.

Driving an empty train up an down a line on £55k a year while 3 million people got nothing as they were legally prevented from running their business? Get over yourself.

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

You may have been lauded by management as key workers, but in reality you were running empty trains about, irrelevant to the lives of most, and cushioned from being furloughed on government minimums.

In an industry that has become an irrelevance to so many people, and relies on so much taxpayer support, I would suggest that the views of everyone, including those outside the railway cocoon, are quite relevant.

Running semi-empty trains. A fair few of which were pivotal for getting the “real” key workers to work.

 

[bramling]

You may have been lauded by management as key workers, but in reality you were running empty trains about, irrelevant to the lives of most, and cushioned from being furloughed on government minimums.

In an industry that has become an irrelevance to so many people, and relies on so much taxpayer support, I would suggest that the views of everyone, including those outside the railway cocoon, are quite relevant.

The empty trains are rather a misnomer, and really only applied during April, May and perhaps June last year. Something like London Underground is now essentially back to normal at many times, albeit with the peaks still depressed and the high peak largely absent.

 

[Watershed]

Running semi-empty trains. A fair few of which were pivotal for getting the “real” key workers to work.

A bare handful, in most cases. The real irony was trumpeting the vastly reduced timetables as being to "ensure key workers can get to work", when in truth the later starts and earlier finishes seen on many lines meant that the train became useless for a lot of key workers unless they happened to have a 9-5 commute. If the trains were kept running to get key workers to work, it would have been cheaper and more effective to send them in a taxi, outwith London.

 

[35B]

Why is it always that people who don’t have a good Union dislike that we have a strong union? Isn’t that a sign that rather than weakening ours you should strengthen your own?

Because the negotiating power of a strong union can - and I think does on the railway - work to distort focus between staff and customers. I don't grudge staff fair pay, and especially not when negotiated effectively. But there comes a tipping point where the power becomes excessive, and the pay or other benefits disproportionate to the value of the work.

 

[BlockBackBobby]

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.


Running semi-empty trains. A fair few of which were pivotal for getting the “real” key workers to work.

I wish I wasn’t classed as a key worker, maybe then I could have sat on my arse for 14 months getting 80% of my wages.
Then I’d probably think it would be slightly off to be rewarded for my ‘effort’

 

[Iskra]

The job is doing me in at the minute and many of my colleagues and managers say much the same. It certainly was easy for a while during the lockdowns - now it's probably the hardest it's ever been.

I certainly don't expect a payrise but given the value I believe I add in various ways (leaving door operations aside) as a hard working train guard I would be devastated to be made redundant - though I don't think that is particularly likely, at least in our area.

I was much the same in my industry, we’ve had peaks and troughs but now it’s getting back to normal it’s a real shock to the system.

I obviously hope there are no redundancies too

 

[RT4038]

You sound like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

If you don't like the message, try to undermine the messenger!

Running semi-empty trains. A fair few of which were pivotal for getting the “real” key workers to work.

And a fair number of that few could/should have been replaced more effectively by buses or taxis.

But this is not about trying to decry the efforts of rail staff who worked through the crisis, but lets not get inflated views either.

I wish I wasn’t classed as a key worker, maybe then I could have sat on my arse for 14 months getting 80% of my wages.
Then I’d probably think it would be slightly off to be rewarded for my ‘effort’

You got paid normally for coming to work - what other reward do you think you should get?

The empty trains are rather a misnomer, and really only applied during April, May and perhaps June last year. Something like London Underground is now essentially back to normal at many times, albeit with the peaks still depressed and the high peak largely absent.

I live next to a 4 track main line, and on my observation, the trains all day are still pretty empty compared to pre-Covid, in spite of a reduced service.

 

[Iskra]

I wish I wasn’t classed as a key worker, maybe then I could have sat on my arse for 14 months getting 80% of my wages.
Then I’d probably think it would be slightly off to be rewarded for my ‘effort’

Doing nothing for 14 months probably isn’t as easy as it sounds, and it’s probably not healthy either. A lot have struggled with no purpose and found it hard to come back after such a long amount of time off. It also wouldn’t be easy financially if 80% doesn’t or barely covers your bills. I don’t think it’s been a picnic for everyone but, I’m sure some did well out of it.

I was off for 7 weeks last year, and that was just enough, so at that point I volunteered to return to work early, and I enjoyed being appreciated by my customers more than ever and having an excuse to leave my house and travel to a few different places.

 

[Stigy]

[b{If you don't like the message, try to undermine the messenger![\b]


And a fair number of that few could/should have been replaced more effectively by buses or taxis.

But this is not about trying to decry the efforts of rail staff who worked through the crisis, but lets not get inflated views either.


You got paid normally for coming to work - what other reward do you think you should get?


I live next to a 4 track main line, and on my observation, the trains all day are still pretty empty compared to pre-Covid, in spite of a reduced service.

It was an observation. Quite accurate too in my opinion.

 

[SuperNova]

I live next to a 4 track main line, and on my observation, the trains all day are still pretty empty compared to pre-Covid, in spite of a reduced service.

It's called social distancing...

After working every day through the pandemic, after being lauded by management for being key workers, sacrificing weekends, giving up annual leave to cover shifts, working unsociable hours having to accept new rosters that are awful and leave you worse off each month.
I’m sorry...but F this we deserve to have a pay rise.
And if you don’t work in the industry then as far as I’m concerned your views are fairly irrelevant.

This attitude stinks. I work in the industry and no, we don't deserve anything extra right now. How many other industries have been propped up to the tune of 800k a day? Aviation hasn't.

 

[LAX54]

You’re comparing local prices with national averages. The National average now is 129.47p

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993486/Weekly_Fuel_Prices_140621.xlsx

Essex Petrol £1.33 Diesel £1.35

 

[O L Leigh]

Pardon me, but is it not a trade union's job to represent the interests of it's membership? As such, is it not appropriate that it sets it's position in opposition to proposals that threaten it's membership?

That some members of staff are, in the light of the wider context, content to forgo a pay rise this year (and I include myself in this) is admirable. The extent to which this view pervades through the grades represented by the RMT may surprise some, including the RMT itself. My own hope is that the RMT has taken proper soundings about this before it mounted it's soapbox as a lack of strong support for this from it's rank and file members would be rather embarrassing.

Speaking of embarrassing, and speaking from an entirely personal viewpoint too, I find that the prevalence of these Covid-19 service badges a bit cringeworthy and it's not something I subscribe to. Railstaff have not been the heroes of the pandemic. We have not been required to expose ourselves to deliberate risk by having to deal directly with the sick and dying in the way that health sector workers have. Granted we have not been stashed away safely at home in the way that many workers have been, but the risk of infection that we have faced has primarily been from our colleagues rather than from the travelling public. Given the wider context that we find ourselves in I would rather we show our support for those less fortunate by not pushing the pay agenda so hard this year, accept that we're likely to get no offer and then come back again next year for another go if it is appropriate to do so. Sabre-rattling at this stage will not do us any favours whatsoever.

 

[LAX54]

If you do not get a pay rise that at least matches inflation, then yes it is a pay cut.
But sadly workers rights have been chipped away at so much in this country people tend to be blind to that.

Its only a pay cut if you go from £10 an hour to £9 an hour, the fact that products and services go up, has no bearing on your pay
when prices go down...rare, but not unheard of, does anyone say our pay needs to go down to reflect this ?

 

[BlockBackBobby]

It's called social distancing...

This attitude stinks. I work in the industry and no, we don't deserve anything extra right now. How many other industries have been propped up to the tune of 800k a day? Aviation hasn't.

You might not think you deserve a pay rise, but I think we do.
I forgot to mention the none annual bonus and the looming threat of redundancy.
But fair enough Super Nova let's tug our forelocks and be grateful we have a job.

 

[RT4038]

It's called social distancing...

It's called empty trains, and with that goes empty farebox, and with that goes cuts and the subject of this thread.

 

[Mag_seven]

A pay rise for those in the rail industry will be due when they have won back all the business they lost over the last year. Appreciate that a lot of the lost business has been due to government instruction / law but when things started to ease off passengers were met with a particularly hostile environment with things such as aggressive looking signs stating "Essential Travel Only" and staff shouting at passengers to sit in window seats etc. In most businesses you get a pay rise when you retain/win new business, not when you scare it away.

 

[The Planner]

You might not think you deserve a pay rise, but I think we do.
I forgot to mention the none annual bonus and the looming threat of redundancy.
But fair enough Super Nova let's tug our forelocks and be grateful we have a job.

But its a Bonus that is paid out on certain criteria, it isn't a guarantee and only the foolhardy would be factoring that in to any income.

 

[AlterEgo]

Where is the money coming from to support the people that have been on furlough for the past year?

That’s an unintentionally sound argument against pay rises funded by the public sector.

 

[bramling]

That’s an unintentionally sound argument against pay rises funded by the public sector.

Depends. One could quite happily take the view that as furlough was never on any electoral manifesto, it’s the government’s problem how they find the money to pay for it.

In reality, it should never have lasted for as long as it does. As a bridge measure to get through the immediate emergency last March was one thing, but it going on for a year and a half is complete madness.

I’ve done my bit in registering displeasure by not voting for the current governing party in the recent local elections.

 

[Wolfie]

Depends. One could quite happily take the view that as furlough was never on any electoral manifesto, it’s the government’s problem how they find the money to pay for it.

In reality, it should never have lasted for as long as it does. As a bridge measure to get through the immediate emergency last March was one thing, but it going on for a year and a half is complete madness.

I’ve done my bit in registering displeasure by not voting for the current governing party in the recent local elections.

Re your first para l assume therefore that you would not complain in the slightest if PAYE and VAT both go up sharply. The reality is that Govts have no money. They can tax or they can borrow.

 

[Robertj21a]

You might not think you deserve a pay rise, but I think we do.
I forgot to mention the none annual bonus and the looming threat of redundancy.
But fair enough Super Nova let's tug our forelocks and be grateful we have a job.

That's a massive chip on your shoulder. I doubt that you'll be happy with any level of pay rise anyway. How about going to work for the NHS......?

 

[35B]

Pardon me, but is it not a trade union's job to represent the interests of it's membership? As such, is it not appropriate that it sets it's position in opposition to proposals that threaten it's membership?

That some members of staff are, in the light of the wider context, content to forgo a pay rise this year (and I include myself in this) is admirable. The extent to which this view pervades through the grades represented by the RMT may surprise some, including the RMT itself. My own hope is that the RMT has taken proper soundings about this before it mounted it's soapbox as a lack of strong support for this from it's rank and file members would be rather embarrassing.

It's entirely appropriate that they represent their membership. It's also ridiculous that, having campaigned as an organisation for nationalisation, they should then object to the government acting effectively. The stench of hypocrisy is strong.

 

[greyman42]

Conductors are back to carrying out revenue duties where they are handling cash and god knows how many tickets/smartcards over the course of a shift as well as being struck standing in crush loaded saloons as the vaccinated middle-aged masses flock back to the railway for day trips out and to head to the pub. We are still very much at an increased risk of catching the virus.

That being the case, a pay rise is not going to alter that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train drivers are more often represented by ASLEF so actually, RMT members have been at risk during the pandemic as they are the conductors and station staff who don't have the luxury of sitting in an enclosed air-conditioned cab all day. The pandemic is far from over even if the lockdowns are. Conductors are back to carrying out revenue duties where they are handling cash and god knows how many tickets/smartcards over the course of a shift as well as being struck standing in crush loaded saloons as the vaccinated middle-aged masses flock back to the railway for day trips out and to head to the pub. We are still very much at an increased risk of catching the virus.

Have you been offered your jabs yet? Perhaps getting two jabs in the arms of people who work close to customers in that way should be a priority.

If you have, unless you're immune-suppressed I'd not worry too much. The chance of getting more than a small case of the sniffles once you've had two jabs is very low.

 

[WestRiding]

Some of you may have been running empty trains around, but from a purely Signalling point of view, I have never in my railway career, known as many freight trains in my area of control. Intermodal Traffic has boomed, as has other traffic. The the seemingly ignorant, its not just a passenger railway. Network Rail staff and the FOCs have not been running just empty trains around, we have had all the freight, which needs signalling, planning, track maintenance and all the rest. So I urge all the armchair enthusiasts, and self appointed experts, to speak for yourselves when you are broadly accusing us of running empty trains around. And if we do such a rubbish job, or are so undeserving of any understanding, then you will buy a car. Someone touched on it earlier, but there is a massive hate of unions, usually by people who have a job with poor t&c, and no union presence.

And why do people keep falling back to comparing us to the NHS. Two totally different Industries. And remember, the NHS has office staff, people who change the printer cartridges, etc etc, they didn't all put their lives on the line any more than the rest of us, but they all fall under the NHS branding, when what you actually mean are nurses. Perspective when quoting the NHS, please.

You all forget the Pway staff, the S&T, the Planning Teams, and indeed the Signalling Staff (who have already been cut to the bone with every pay negotiation). This is a forum about Passenger Trains, and Guards. So many more people on the railway than you realise. You just never see them.

 

[nedchester]

The RMT and other rail unions seem to offer in what they think is a protective bubble. A Tory Government may just wish to burst that bubble.

There cannot be any justification for a pay rise or job protection for a service which has been running around empty for much of the past 15 months. Of course the RMT campaigned for a publicly owned railway and that's effectively what they've got along with the pay freeze........what? You mean they didn't expect that bit?

Maybe time for the NHS workers, teachers, police etc to catch up in pay terms?

 

[WestRiding]

You may have been lauded by management as key workers, but in reality you were running empty trains about, irrelevant to the lives of most, and cushioned from being furloughed on government minimums.

In an industry that has become an irrelevance to so many people, and relies on so much taxpayer support, I would suggest that the views of everyone, including those outside the railway cocoon, are quite relevant.

Not many empty trains on and off Felixstowe Docks for the last year, or any other port for that matter. It might be irrelevant to the regular passenger, but the regular public seem to have a hate for lorries too. They stop short of thinking how the supermarket gets filled, or amazon gets its stock. It is not just a passenger railway.

For fairness, rail unions are not the only ones disputing pay rises.

Public sector pay: Unions reject 1.5% pay offer for council workers amid Whitehall freeze

Sector’s 2021-22 proposals came after Rishi Sunak announced pay restraint following coronavirus

www.civilserviceworld.com

That gets looked over though. Thanks though.

 

[the sniper]

A pay rise for those in the rail industry will be due when they have won back all the business they lost over the last year.

All the business? Ah, no pay rises ever again potentially. The RailUK dream.

How many places are actually in or are going to be in dispute, my excitable RMT press release obsessed friends?

Many of the people complaining about the prospect of any pay rises now were the same ones disgusted by the pay rises during the last 20 years of massive growth...

 

[SignallerJohn]

Some of you may have been running empty trains around, but from a purely Signalling point of view, I have never in my railway career, known as many freight trains in my area of control. Intermodal Traffic has boomed, as has other traffic. The the seemingly ignorant, its not just a passenger railway. Network Rail staff and the FOCs have not been running just empty trains around, we have had all the freight, which needs signalling, planning, track maintenance and all the rest. So I urge all the armchair enthusiasts, and self appointed experts, to speak for yourselves when you are broadly accusing us of running empty trains around. And if we do such a rubbish job, or are so undeserving of any understanding, then you will buy a car. Someone touched on it earlier, but there is a massive hate of unions, usually by people who have a job with poor t&c, and no union presence.

Said it far better than I ever could of