RMT vote 4 to 1 to strike over NR pay

[alxndr]

Debatable. Certainly in insurance policies "industrial dispute" tends to feature separately from genuine "force majeure" which is something that is by definition totally out of the TOC's control. I would argue strike action is within the TOC's control as it is a direct result of a policy of theirs (and the union's dislike of said policy).

Other than they are both part of the rail industry, TOCs and NR are entirely separate. It is not the TOCs policy that the unions have an issue with in this instance.

 

[marks87]

Naive question, but I'm assuming this won't affect the London Underground (other than it probably being considerably busier than usual)?

I'm flying into Heathrow on the 26th and had planned to get the Heathrow Express to Paddington, but the Piccadilly Line will do if needs must.

 

[gavin]

Naive question, but I'm assuming this won't affect the London Underground (other than it probably being considerably busier than usual)?

I'm flying into Heathrow on the 26th and had planned to get the Heathrow Express to Paddington, but the Piccadilly Line will do if needs must.

National rail are listing the London Underground as one of the affected TOC's

 

[33056]

London Underground staff are not involved, the only lines affected would be where LU trains run on Network Rail infrastructure such as Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone or Gunnersbury to Richmond.

 

[455driver]

Surely if they reached the deadline it could be the crews job to taxi back as they are on strike.

How the are the crews on strike? They dont work for Network Rail (whose staff are on strike)! :roll:

Okay I get that you have a serious problem with train crew but 10 seconds research would show you that NETWORK RAIL staff are on strike! :roll:

 

[Llanigraham]

Having looked at the NR offer again I've come to the conclusion that to me it will be a wage cut. They are proposing to stop all the 12 hour shifts, so going to 8 hour shifts is going to increase my commute to work by a third!
Not bothered about the removal of the Staff Discount Card as I get a better discount with my Disabled Adult Card!

 

[Tomnick]

Having looked at the NR offer again I've come to the conclusion that to me it will be a wage cut. They are proposing to stop all the 12 hour shifts, so going to 8 hour shifts is going to increase my commute to work by a third!

That was quickly taken off the table, not that anyone seemed to understand it anyway (we're on 8 hour rosters, but fairly regularly work 12s just to keep the job running). The clear intention that the proposed increase was to be "self funding", though, meant that we'd almost certainly lose as much as we'd gain. In real terms, then, both that and the 'revised' 0% offer does surely represent a wage cut.

 

[wijit]

Perhaps you should take time to read the particular posting to which annoyed me. "Front line" as referring to the Military front line where millions have died over the last time period, was NOT shown in that posting, but what was shown were the words "Coal Face" in that posting and the implied reference to the miners who died were just carrying out their working lives in that industry, not offering to give up their lives in defence of their country, as many of the last few generations have done.

For heavens sake, be more careful with your posting responses and ensure that you refer to what was written rather than what you thought should have been written...

Perhaps you should take time to realise I was putting perspective to your rant. Please don't tell me to "be more careful" when you're the one taking something personally for no particular reason. You're hardly in a good light here, are you?

 

[High Dyke]

Other than they are both part of the rail industry, TOCs and NR are entirely separate. It is not the TOCs policy that the unions have an issue with in this instance.

Ah but don't forget, to many people we are still one 'British Rail'. Someone recently spoke to me regarding a ticket matter they had been involved with on a train... "I was just talking to your colleague on the train..." The chap seemed surprised when i pointed out that we hadn't been 'one' railway for about 20 years.

 

[infobleep]

How the are the crews on strike? They dont work for Network Rail (whose staff are on strike)! :roll:

Okay I get that you have a serious problem with train crew but 10 seconds research would show you that NETWORK RAIL staff are on strike! :roll:

Of course the crews are not on strike. Your right. My mistake. I was getting carried away in my hypothetical world. I certainly don't have a problem with train crews. I'm just fascinated by it all and how it works. Claim down dear it was a mistake.

So the company's could pay for their taxis back to the depot if they found it wasn't possible for a train to run beyond a certain point due to lack of signalling staff on the line. I'm sure that wouldn't happen because they'd try to run down the service in advance to avoid stranding trains and passengers.

As an aside. Any rail replacement buses running on the Monday afternoon would actually be useful as the line in question would still be able to receive a good service.

Anyway I hope it doesn't come to that. Whilst I'd be interested in seeing what sort of service could be provided during a strike, I'd rather they came to an agreement they were both happy to sign on.

If it is only a few sticking points hopefully those can be discussed fairly quickly and an outcome reached, providing they can resolve the few sticking points.

Work place changes are not easy things to deal with. I get the impression from my own experiences that the higher up you are the easier it is to say no to a change in working or other matters. Lower down you either accept it, good or bad or find another job. Unless you and your colleagues have a union to help you fight the cause.

 

[A-driver]

Of course the crews are not on strike. Your right. My mistake. I was getting carried away in my hypothetical world. I certainly don't have a problem with train crews. I'm just fascinated by it all and how it works. Claim down dear it was a mistake.

So the company's could pay for their taxis back to the depot if they found it wasn't possible for a train to run beyond a certain point due to lack of signalling staff on the line. I'm sure that wouldn't happen because they'd try to run down the service in advance to avoid stranding trains and passengers.

As an aside. Any rail replacement buses running on the Monday afternoon would actually be useful as the line in question would still be able to receive a good service.

Anyway I hope it doesn't come to that. Whilst I'd be interested in seeing what sort of service could be provided during a strike, I'd rather they came to an agreement they were both happy to sign on.

If it is only a few sticking points hopefully those can be discussed fairly quickly and an outcome reached, providing they can resolve the few sticking points.

Work place changes are not easy things to deal with. I get the impression from my own experiences that the higher up you are the easier it is to say no to a change in working or other matters. Lower down you either accept it, good or bad or find another job. Unless you and your colleagues have a union to help you fight the cause.

Regarding taxis, yes if a driver/crew are stuck away from their Home Depot they will be put in a taxi. The main reason being that if they are stranded away from there depot it will impact on the company in a big way. If it means they don't get 12hours rest between shifts for example then they will not be able to book on for work the next day which increases disruption.

 

[gavin]

Will a final decision regarding the strike will be made this Monday or could further talks take place beyond Monday if no agreement is reached

 

[LAX54]

Will a final decision regarding the strike will be made this Monday or could further talks take place beyond Monday if no agreement is reached

As a Union member I would expect meetings 12 hours or more a day until it is resolved, but I have my doubts, although they will, again I hope. have various meetings until the 11th hour !

 

[yorksrob]

Will we see footage of fish and chips being brought into ACAS headquarters like in the 80's and 90's!

 

[matt_world2004]

London Underground staff are not involved, the only lines affected would be where LU trains run on Network Rail infrastructure such as Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone or Gunnersbury to Richmond.

What about Met to Amersham?

 

[CyrusWuff]

What about Met to Amersham?

That's LU infrastructure (technically Great Central and Metropolitan Joint Railway) between Harrow South Junction and Mantles Wood.

Chiltern are predicting they'll be able to run some sort of service throughout the Marylebone ASC area, namely Marylebone - Aylesbury (via both High Wycombe and Amersham) and Marylebone - Bicester North. Nothing past Bicester though.

 

[High Dyke]

Will we see footage of fish and chips being brought into ACAS headquarters like in the 80's and 90's!

Sounds like a tacky comedy duo...

 

[MichaelAMW]

I ask this question from a completely neutral standpoint.

I can appreciate why this offer of a non-consolidated £500 is a problem, as it leaves the "benchmark" for any future rises as an effective reduction in real-terms pay over the longer term, even if the £500 might be an OK amount just considering this year alone. Fine! (Or not...) But what, if anything, is the argument for requesting an *above inflation* increasing in the future? All other things being equal, it's reasonable to ask for your pay to keep pace with the cost of living but is there a rational reason for requesting more than that?

(Pay of the CEO is irrelevant, as he's such a tiny proportion of the workforce, although it's not exactly leading by example. Similarly, sharing in NR profits won't get you far as that sits on top of a massive debt.)

 

[Haydn1971]

Probably they are asking for more than inflation because pay hasn't kept pace with inflation - plus if you ask for inflation increase you end up accepting a lower offer - standard tactics, like selling a house or car - you give a price that gives you some leeway downwards

 

[gavin]

How is the strike likely to affect Middlesbrough and Norwich fans getting to and from Wembley on the Tube?

 

[yorksrob]

Sounds like a tacky comedy duo...

Indeed, not as good as Pin and Cushion though

For those unfamiliar with industrial relations, ACAS are a sort of marriage guidance counsellor for industrial disputes.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

London Underground staff are not involved, the only lines affected would be where LU trains run on Network Rail infrastructure such as Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone or Gunnersbury to Richmond.

LO must be badly affected, as most of its services run on NR infrastructure.
Would there be any impact on LO's East London line?
Unlike the situation before the upgrade, isn't the signalling run by NR?
Heathrow is signalled by NR too, and in the future so too will Crossrail.
How about Tyne & Wear metro, and Manchester Metrolink at Altrincham?

 

[lincolnshire]

As a Union member I would expect meetings 12 hours or more a day until it is resolved, but I have my doubts, although they will, again I hope. have various meetings until the 11th hour !

One way of resolving it is put them in a room and tell there are here till its settled and also remove all the mobile phones etc and get on with solving there difficulties face to face talking about the items in person and settling it in person without referring to others outside of the talks till they have a deal for the members to vote on if they then want to accept the deal they come up with.

If the members put the trust in the union negotiators and the management put the trust in there negotiators then they should not have to refer to any outside parties till after the deal is settled.

Bet that will not happen.

 

[carriageline]

I ask this question from a completely neutral standpoint.



I can appreciate why this offer of a non-consolidated £500 is a problem, as it leaves the "benchmark" for any future rises as an effective reduction in real-terms pay over the longer term, even if the £500 might be an OK amount just considering this year alone. Fine! (Or not...) But what, if anything, is the argument for requesting an *above inflation* increasing in the future? All other things being equal, it's reasonable to ask for your pay to keep pace with the cost of living but is there a rational reason for requesting more than that?



(Pay of the CEO is irrelevant, as he's such a tiny proportion of the workforce, although it's not exactly leading by example. Similarly, sharing in NR profits won't get you far as that sits on top of a massive debt.)

Personally, and I speak for a lot of NR employees. If they put that £500 into our wages, (or RPI for this year) and RPI for the next few years the. that would probably be accepted. If they chucked a railcard that was useful for EVERYONE in (I have heard rumours we would all receive the 25-65 or whatever one, regardless of age which would be more than acceptable) then we would be onto a winner. If they extend the no redundancies for the length of the pay deal, then that would be accepted all day (would prefer that over the railcard!

Most the workforce understand that RPI + a % is unrealistic. All we ask for is to stay inline with inflation, and no pay cut.

 

[Marklund]

Personally, and I speak for a lot of NR employees. If they put that £500 into our wages, (or RPI for this year) and RPI for the next few years the. that would probably be accepted. If they chucked a railcard that was useful for EVERYONE in (I have heard rumours we would all receive the 25-65 or whatever one, regardless of age which would be more than acceptable) then we would be onto a winner. If they extend the no redundancies for the length of the pay deal, then that would be accepted all day (would prefer that over the railcard!

Most the workforce understand that RPI + a % is unrealistic. All we ask for is to stay inline with inflation, and no pay cut.

Agreed. It's not going to take much to get this through.

 

[alxndr]

If they chucked a railcard that was useful for EVERYONE in (I have heard rumours we would all receive the 25-65 or whatever one, regardless of age which would be more than acceptable)

Unless you're under 25 (like me) and thus it would be useless... Never heard this rumour anyway, all I ever heard was the "pick of a commercially available railcard".

But yes, that deal would be more than suitable, the rail travel, or lack of, is the smallest of the gripes compared to redundancies and pay cuts.

 

[Deerfold]

One way of resolving it is put them in a room and tell there are here till its settled and also remove all the mobile phones etc and get on with solving there difficulties face to face talking about the items in person and settling it in person without referring to others outside of the talks till they have a deal for the members to vote on if they then want to accept the deal they come up with.

If the members put the trust in the union negotiators and the management put the trust in there negotiators then they should not have to refer to any outside parties till after the deal is settled.

Bet that will not happen.

And how would isolating the negotiators actually help?

 

[LAX54]

One way of resolving it is put them in a room and tell there are here till its settled and also remove all the mobile phones etc and get on with solving there difficulties face to face talking about the items in person and settling it in person without referring to others outside of the talks till they have a deal for the members to vote on if they then want to accept the deal they come up with.

If the members put the trust in the union negotiators and the management put the trust in there negotiators then they should not have to refer to any outside parties till after the deal is settled.

Bet that will not happen.

Tend to agree. wow betide them if they do the same as they did last time ! :-x

 

[LAX54]

Personally, and I speak for a lot of NR employees. If they put that £500 into our wages, (or RPI for this year) and RPI for the next few years the. that would probably be accepted. If they chucked a railcard that was useful for EVERYONE in (I have heard rumours we would all receive the 25-65 or whatever one, regardless of age which would be more than acceptable) then we would be onto a winner. If they extend the no redundancies for the length of the pay deal, then that would be accepted all day (would prefer that over the railcard!

Most the workforce understand that RPI + a % is unrealistic. All we ask for is to stay inline with inflation, and no pay cut.

Agreed 100% well with all the locals I have spoken to so far !

 

[carriageline]

Unless you're under 25 (like me) and thus it would be useless... Never heard this rumour anyway, all I ever heard was the "pick of a commercially available railcard".

But yes, that deal would be more than suitable, the rail travel, or lack of, is the smallest of the gripes compared to redundancies and pay cuts.

We was obviously told that we was getting a railcard, everyone kicked off that it was useless then i heard we was getting one of them, regardless of eligibility. Rumour as I say.