Rolling stock fulfilling ATW timetable

[Curlywurly]

I'm conducting some academic research into potential future rail options for the current Arriva Trains Wales network and would like to make a comparison to current operation.

Could anyone point me in the right direction to understand the normal rolling stock that is scheduled for the current ATW timetable (type & number of cars).

Thanks

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm conducting some academic research into potential future rail options for the current Arriva Trains Wales network and would like to make a comparison to current operation.

Could anyone point me in the right direction to understand the normal rolling stock that is scheduled for the current ATW timetable (type & number of cars).

Thanks

Welcome to the Forum and look forward to any future contributions.

What I'll do is to tell you what traction ATW use:-

Class 142 and 143 (Pacers) and treated by ATW as i Fleet. They are 2 Car Units and some of them run around the Cardiff Valleys as pairs. They total 30 in number.
Class 150/2 (2 Car) and 36 of them
Class 153 (Single Car) and 8 of them
Class 158 (2 Car) and 24 of them.
Class 175 (mixture of 2 Car and 3 Car units) and 27 of them.
Also, 2 Sets of Loco Hauled Carriage Stock, 4 vehicles, and hauled/propelled by a Class 67 Loco.

Hopefully, late Summer, 5 x 4 Car Class 319 EMUs should arrive after conversion to bimode (no electrified routes at present) and after which they will be identified as Class 769s.
The 142/143s at the moment have to go by the end of 2019 as there is no intention of making them Disability Friendly (known as PRM Mods) and after which date all units must be PRM fitted.

These could change in the future as the Franchise is due to be renewed in October but what the future holds is a closely guarded secret by the Welsh Government who are responsible for transport in Wales.

 

[Curlywurly]

Welcome to the Forum and look forward to any future contributions.

What I'll do is to tell you what traction ATW use:-

Class 142 and 143 (Pacers) and treated by ATW as i Fleet. They are 2 Car Units and some of them run around the Cardiff Valleys as pairs. They total 30 in number.
Class 150/2 (2 Car) and 36 of them
Class 153 (Single Car) and 8 of them
Class 158 (2 Car) and 24 of them.
Class 175 (mixture of 2 Car and 3 Car units) and 27 of them.
Also, 2 Sets of Loco Hauled Carriage Stock, 4 vehicles, and hauled/propelled by a Class 67 Loco.

Hopefully, late Summer, 5 x 4 Car Class 319 EMUs should arrive after conversion to bimode (no electrified routes at present) and after which they will be identified as Class 769s.
The 142/143s at the moment have to go by the end of 2019 as there is no intention of making them Disability Friendly (known as PRM Mods) and after which date all units must be PRM fitted.

These could change in the future as the Franchise is due to be renewed in October but what the future holds is a closely guarded secret by the Welsh Government who are responsible for transport in Wales.

Thank you Philipe - most informative. My time spent on the ends of platforms in the 1970s predates all of these by many years - so I have some catching up to do!

I have aggregated passenger data, but I am trying to get an idea of the routes that each of the above units are regularly timetabled for. I've picked up some information from reading previous posts on here, but I'm looking for something more comprehensive, e.g. what is usually used for the 08:02 from Penarth to Rhymney, or the 16:30 From M'cr Picadilly to Milford Haven, and so on. Perhaps I'll need to approach ATW directly for this information, but If anyone can point to publicly available information that covers this, I would be most grateful.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thank you Philipe - most informative. My time spent on the ends of platforms in the 1970s predates all of these by many years - so I have some catching up to do!

I have aggregated passenger data, but I am trying to get an idea of the routes that each of the above units are regularly timetabled for. I've picked up some information from reading previous posts on here, but I'm looking for something more comprehensive, e.g. what is usually used for the 08:02 from Penarth to Rhymney, or the 16:30 From M'cr Picadilly to Milford Haven, and so on. Perhaps I'll need to approach ATW directly for this information, but If anyone can point to publicly available information that covers this, I would be most grateful.

I'm afraid that you have to be on the "inside" to go down to the finer details as they are not in the public domain.

 

[rebmcr]

158s must be used on the Aberystwyth line as it uses a special new kind of signalling system.

As a rough rule of thumb (although often altered):

Manchester services through Cardiff and beyond use the 175s. Sundays see more variety then usual.
The loco-hauled carriages operate between Cardiff and north Wales.
142s/143s stick to the valleys.

 

[PHILIPE]

158s must be used on the Aberystwyth line as it uses a special new kind of signalling system.

As a rough rule of thumb (although often altered):

Manchester services through Cardiff and beyond use the 175s. Sundays see more variety then usual.
The loco-hauled carriages operate between Cardiff and north Wales.
142s/143s stick to the valleys.

142/143s regularly work between Maesteg and Cheltenham, especially Sundays (not Maesteg as no Sunday service) and also to Pembroke Dock on Saturdays.

 

[daikilo]

The core operations are
158 on all Cambrian and all services to Birmingham
175 on most South Wales to Manchester and North Wales
153 or 150 on Heart of Wales and most Shrewsbury-Crewe
142/143 and some 150 on Cardiff valleys plus some other Cardiff radials
2xLHCS+67 on 1 Holyhead-Cardiff round-trip per day and 1 Holyhead-Manchester diagram

 

[mp01]

From my casual observations, as far as I can tell 142, 143 and 150 are used pretty interchangeably on the valley lines. Some will be diagrammed as two pairs because they either join or split at some point during the day, and that can be deciphered to some extent from RTT, but things do change from time to time. As a general rule though, Aberdare and Merthyr trains tend to be 150s working singly more often than not, and Treherbert trains tend to be more pacers than sprinters, and perhaps more likely to be working in pairs. But (I guess because of operational needs) it does vary from day to day and even whether it's a single or double pair varies from day to day.

 

[PHILIPE]

The core operations are
158 on all Cambrian and all services to Birmingham
175 on most South Wales to Manchester and North Wales
153 or 150 on Heart of Wales and most Shrewsbury-Crewe
142/143 and some 150 on Cardiff valleys plus some other Cardiff radials
2xLHCS+67 on 1 Holyhead-Cardiff round-trip per day and 1 Holyhead-Manchester diagram

Add:-
153s also on Cardiff Bay Shuttle and some Radyr Corytons.
150s in North on Blaenau Ffesting and Wrexham to Bidstons and Crewe to Chester shuttling.

 

[PHILIPE]

From my casual observations, as far as I can tell 142, 143 and 150 are used pretty interchangeably on the valley lines. Some will be diagrammed as two pairs because they either join or split at some point during the day, and that can be deciphered to some extent from RTT, but things do change from time to time. As a general rule though, Aberdare and Merthyr trains tend to be 150s working singly more often than not, and Treherbert trains tend to be more pacers than sprinters, and perhaps more likely to be working in pairs. But (I guess because of operational needs) it does vary from day to day and even whether it's a single or double pair varies from day to day.

Pacers and 150s have their own diagrams, but as you say, they do interchange in practice. 142s and 143s are treated as one fleet. The pairs of Pacers tend to stick together through the day and rather than operational needs variations are down to availability as much as anything

 

[Curlywurly]

Thanks to everyone for the information.

 

[Envoy]

If you want to find out how many coaches are on a particular service - go to >http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/
Select a station from the list and then STAFF VIEW. (It will now usually state how many coaches are on a particular train).

 

[Envoy]

For train services at locations - use >
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced

 

[PHILIPE]

If you want to find out how many coaches are on a particular service - go to >http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/
Select a station from the list and then STAFF VIEW. (It will now usually state how many coaches are on a particular train).

Often the details are missing and not all stations appear in the system.

 

[geoffk]

Last Sunday, one of the South Wales - Manchester services was 2 x class 150 (still with trolley, as they are all 2+ 2 seating).

I've read that Wales will be keeping some Pacers in 2020 - with the toilets locked out of use! Under the Persons with Reduced Mobility legislation, there is no requirement to provide a wheelchair accessible toilet on trains that don't have toilets at all, as is the case on Merseyrail Electrics and several unit types in the South-East and Scotland. The latest example of Civil Service logic.

If the Maesteg - Cheltenham service remains in its current form and 769s are used, they will be able to run in electric mode between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Junction.

 

[PHILIPE]

Last Sunday, one of the South Wales - Manchester services was 2 x class 150 (still with trolley, as they are all 2+ 2 seating).

I've read that Wales will be keeping some Pacers in 2020 - with the toilets locked out of use! Under the Persons with Reduced Mobility legislation, there is no requirement to provide a wheelchair accessible toilet on trains that don't have toilets at all, as is the case on Merseyrail Electrics and several unit types in the South-East and Scotland. The latest example of Civil Service logic.

If the Maesteg - Cheltenham service remains in its current form and 769s are used, they will be able to run in electric mode between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Junction.

There are some South Wales services on a Sunday that are booked for 150s due to the fact there are not enough 175s in the right place at the right time.
4 Car 769s would be overkill for Maesteg to Cheltenham except perhaps at Peak time.
The Welsh Government have denied any toilets on the Pacers will be locked out of use but they are running around like headless chickens re the forthcoming new franchise.

 

[6Gman]

Last Sunday, one of the South Wales - Manchester services was 2 x class 150 (still with trolley, as they are all 2+ 2 seating).

There is at least one booked 2x150 diagram on this route on a Sunday, and has been for some time (at least a couple of years).

 

[craigybagel]

Monday to Friday, everything on the Cardiff/South Wales - Holyhead/Manchester route is booked for 175, with the following exceptions.

Class 150
0030 Cardiff - Hereford
0526 Hereford - Barry Island
2155 Cardiff - Crewe
2308 Shrewsbury - Cardiff

Class 158
0610 Shrewsbury - Maesteg, and 2017 Cardiff - Manchester

67 + 4 MkIIIs + DVT
0533 Holyhead - Cardiff
1716 Cardiff - Holyhead

158s and 150s may substitute from time to time (and lately it's rare to not have at least one of those sets on the marches) - but on paper at least those services listed above are the only ones not booked for 175

Saturday's are broadly the same, although one of the 175 all day diagrams becomes a 158 (starting with 0630 Manchester - Milford Haven) and you'll also see a 142/3 make it all the way to Abergavenny on one single afternoon trip (it returns ECS).

Sunday sees booked 150s and 158s, both singular and in multiple, including one service which arrives from the south as a single 158 and picks up a second unit at Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[Curlywurly]

Monday to Friday, everything on the Cardiff/South Wales - Holyhead/Manchester route is booked for 175, with the following exceptions.

Class 150
0030 Cardiff - Hereford
0526 Hereford - Barry Island
2155 Cardiff - Crewe
2308 Shrewsbury - Cardiff

Class 158
0610 Shrewsbury - Maesteg, and 2017 Cardiff - Manchester

67 + 4 MkIIIs + DVT
0533 Holyhead - Cardiff
1716 Cardiff - Holyhead

158s and 150s may substitute from time to time (and lately it's rare to not have at least one of those sets on the marches) - but on paper at least those services listed above are the only ones not booked for 175

Saturday's are broadly the same, although one of the 175 all day diagrams becomes a 158 (starting with 0630 Manchester - Milford Haven) and you'll also see a 142/3 make it all the way to Abergavenny on one single afternoon trip (it returns ECS).

Sunday sees booked 150s and 158s, both singular and in multiple, including one service which arrives from the south as a single 158 and picks up a second unit at Manchester Piccadilly.

Thank you for this information