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Roof panel falls onto Southern passengers

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absolutelymilk

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LLivery

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First they can't keep the carriages together, now they can't keep a panel up. Is it normal for something like this to happen and for the train to stay in service?

Ms Burkes said there were no station staff available at South Croydon, so they were not able to report what had happened until the train reached East Croydon.

"It was a bit of a shock really, there were no managers there, noone even offered us a cup of tea," she said.

"They asked if we wanted an ambulance, but I can't believe there wasn't even a first aider.

"I just want an apology. Everything is terrible at the moment, even since the strike delays have been carrying on, there are no staff at stations.

"Imagine if it was a baby it fell on, it's not safe."
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-rail-commuters-hurt-as-ceiling-of-rush-hour-train-carriage-crashes-to-floor-a3323611.html

Very lucky no one was hurt. As for no first aider - only if there was a job which can do first aid...
 

BestWestern

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First they can't keep the carriages together, now they can't keep a panel up. Is it normal for something like this to happen and for the train to stay in service?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-rail-commuters-hurt-as-ceiling-of-rush-hour-train-carriage-crashes-to-floor-a3323611.html

Very lucky no one was hurt. As for no first aider - only if there was a job which can do first aid...

GTR/DfT's brave new future doesn't include people requiring assistance. It will be strictly prohibited in the new Hooray Horton Rulebook ;)
 
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EAD

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Hmm not great. I saw the news reports and I have to say that while the panel should not have fallen off, there is a great line in the BBC online story where they interview one of those affected. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172

The lady reports that "she suffered bruising and whiplash when the panel fell on to her shoulder". At the same time the article tells us Southern say staff attended at East Croydon and there were no reports of any injuries. I am glad all is well and am sure the bruising etc is pretty painful, but I have to admit to a slight bit of scepticism re whiplash and the fact that has been diagnosed so quickly. Of course irrespective I wish the ladies that were hit by the panel a speedy recovery.
 

tsr

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First they can't keep the carriages together, now they can't keep a panel up. Is it normal for something like this to happen and for the train to stay in service?

It's rare but I have known panels to come off on several separate classes of Southern traction. Probably a particularly pessimistic absolute maximum of once every couple of months of riding trains intensively. Interestingly I've only ever known it in the cabs of 455s, where passengers have no reason to go. And yes, before anyone asks, I have reported all such incidents properly...

A lot of ceiling panels on Southern 455s are secured using recessed but fairly rudimentary fixings (I won't specify which, for basic security reasons, but many are readily observable, of course) and it may not easily be possible to see precisely how secure or fatigued some types are at a glance, or during train prep or maintenance which does not involve opening them. I'm not excusing this incident but this may explain things in part. At this time I have no idea what the investigation has uncovered or what it may continue to find.

However, whilst injury is quite possible and even likely in such an incident, this is not quite the same breed as an accidental division in service.

Lastly, if this happened in service, the relevant coaches (and any adjoining ones if required by fire regs) should be locked OOU. This is quite quick and easy on a 455 though due to the absence of Door Out of Order lights, it can cause confusion and extended dwells at stations.

Very lucky no one was hurt. As for no first aider - only if there was a job which can do first aid...

That wouldn't be a conductor, if that's what you're suggesting. Southern conductors have not had first aid competencies for quite some time.

However, that said, a conductor would be able to organise a response whilst still on the move, and request the necessary assistance as quickly as possible in a professional manner.
 
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Flamingo

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Hmm not great. I saw the news reports and I have to say that while the panel should not have fallen off, there is a great line in the BBC online story where they interview one of those affected. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37117172

The lady reports that "she suffered bruising and whiplash when the panel fell on to her shoulder". At the same time the article tells us Southern say staff attended at East Croydon and there were no reports of any injuries. I am glad all is well and am sure the bruising etc is pretty painful, but I have to admit to a slight bit of scepticism re whiplash and the fact that has been diagnosed so quickly. Of course irrespective I wish the ladies that were hit by the panel a speedy recovery.
The Dr said I was fine. The Claims Handler said I had whiplash. Typical NHS inefficiency, I'm going to complain...
 

infobleep

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At least no one died. How heavy is the ceiling and what would be the chances of someone dying from it collapsing?

Wendy Butler was quoted in the Guardian saying it was excuse after excuse and then mentioned leaves on the line and rain.

I'm surprised she didn't mention shortage of train crew, staff, conductors and drivers, with some train failures and more stock needing maintenance than usual thrown in for good measure! If she did, I'm surprised the Press Association, who wrote the article, didn't refer to them as well.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...shaken?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Southern train ceiling collapse leaves commuters shaken
Latest problem to hit embattled operator saw large section of carriage ceiling fall down between Purley Oaks and South Croydon
Handout photo taken with permission from the Twitter feed of @fabricofmylife of a collapsed ceiling on a Southern rail train carriage.
Handout photo taken with permission from the Twitter feed of @fabricofmylife of a collapsed ceiling on a Southern rail train carriage. Photograph: Kate Baxter/PA
Press Association
Published: 11:39 BST Thu 18 August 2016
Commuters in south London were given a shock when part of a ceiling collapsed in a train carriage during Thursday morning’s rush hour.

The incident happened on a service operated by embattled rail company Southern between Purley Oaks and South Croydon at about 8.25am. Passengers were left shaken but avoided injury.

Kate Baxter, who was on the train, tweeted photographs showing a large section of the ceiling on the floor of the carriage.


A Southern spokesman said: “Reports have been received of a ceiling panel dislodging in one of the carriages on the 7.45am Southern service from Tattenham Corner to Victoria.

“Southern staff at East Croydon station boarded the train to attend to passengers and it was reported at the time that there were no injuries. The cause of this incident is currently unknown and will be investigated fully.

“We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused.”

It is the latest problem to hit Southern services, which have suffered delays and cancellations for months because of a dispute over changes to the role of conductors as well as staff shortages blamed by the company on high levels of employee sickness.

The Guardian view on the Southern train strike: keep the doors open for talks | Editorial
Public relations manager Wendy Butler, 36, was in the carriage when the panel fell and claimed people could have been killed.

She told the Press Association: “I was minding my own business and suddenly heard a bit of commotion on the other side of the carriage and realised part of the train had fallen down.

“People were actually quite calm. Lots of very nice men leapt up and moved the piece of metal. It could’ve been a lot worse. Some of the people could have died if they had been under that.”

She added: “It’s just one thing after another with Southern. It’s just relentless, it’s just beyond ridiculous and excuse after excuse, whether it’s rain or leaves on the line. It seems they are cursed at the moment.”

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nottsnurse

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Meh, when an entire section of overhead luggage bins fall on you whilst the aircraft is in flight come back and complain! ;)

I and a few others were the recipients of said luggage bins on a VC10 a few years back. Given it was an RAF aircraft and that they were often 're-roled', it's likely the knuckledragging Cosfordite who nailed them back in place used the wrong threaded nails and was just hoping the extra vigorous 'percussive maintenance' would do.
 
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Flamingo

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I'm reminded of the old chestnut about the female guard hearing a comotion in the front cab of a unit and it came to a stop. On opening the cab door, the driver was trying to fix a panel back into place that had fallen on him.
"Do you need a screwdriver?" asks the Guard
"Better not" replies the driver, "We're already late!"


I'll get my coat....
 

47513 Severn

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Nice to see the obligatory "given how much we pay for our tickets" style passenger quote in the BBC article. As if a roof fitting staying up has anything to do with the price of tickets!
 

Class455

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Looking at the pictures, 455809 was the unit involved, and it happened in 62717, just near the door to the DTSO. The unit ran straight from Victoria to Stewarts Lane after the incident, with the other portion of the train (from Caterham) running empty to Streatham Hill Sidings. I'm suprised the unit wasn't taken out of service at East Croydon or nobody pulled the alarm, as this was an emergency situation.
 
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OneOffDave

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Depending how the panel fell, the potential for injury varies significantly. Just dropping down flat, probably minimal. Edge on, hitting you on the head or neck could be fairly serious
 

northwichcat

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The Dr said I was fine. The Claims Handler said I had whiplash. Typical NHS inefficiency, I'm going to complain...

It sounds like the driver walked through checked he didn't need to call an ambulance and from that Southern originally reported that there were no injuries. Since when has a driver been able to do a full medical examination just by walking through the train?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At least no one died. How heavy is the ceiling and what would be the chances of someone dying from it collapsing?

It looks like the train was quiet from the photos so there wasn't any need for anyone to be standing directly under the panel. It might have been a different outcome if someone had been!

I noticed quite a lot of Northern DMUs have paneling which doesn't look 100% secure - perhaps it's a more urgent job for that to be fixed than I originally thought.
 
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jon0844

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Nice to see the obligatory "given how much we pay for our tickets" style passenger quote in the BBC article. As if a roof fitting staying up has anything to do with the price of tickets!

Fares will need to go up to pay for better fixings?

Have to say this is a big one-upmanship over simply having button covers falling off.
 
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Antman

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Nice to see the obligatory "given how much we pay for our tickets" style passenger quote in the BBC article. As if a roof fitting staying up has anything to do with the price of tickets!

Seems a reasonable enough point to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Looking at the pictures, 455809 was the unit involved, and it happened in 62717, just near the door to the DTSO. The unit ran straight from Victoria to Stewarts Lane after the incident, with the other portion of the train (from Caterham) running empty to Streatham Hill Sidings. I'm suprised the unit wasn't taken out of service at East Croydon or nobody pulled the alarm, as this was an emergency situation.

If nobody had been hurt would there have been any point in pulling the alarm?
 

oldman

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I once flew in an Uzbekistan Tupolev where the translucent panel under the lights became detached on one side and hinged down. Fortunately the cabin crew were able to apply some more sticky-backed plastic to put it back safely.
 

infobleep

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I once flew in an Uzbekistan Tupolev where the translucent panel under the lights became detached on one side and hinged down. Fortunately the cabin crew were able to apply some more sticky-backed plastic to put it back safely.
How would the world cope without sticky back plastic!

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EAD

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It sounds like the driver walked through checked he didn't need to call an ambulance and from that Southern originally reported that there were no injuries. Since when has a driver been able to do a full medical examination just by walking through the train?

I think he may well have done as well as staff hopping on board at East Croydon - hard to tell from reports. Well of course he can't do a full medical exam, but I like the fact that the lady in question has managed to reach a diagnosis in a very short time post incident and talk to the media. It just brings a wry smile to my face. :)

Of course if a child had been hit or it landed end up, things may well have been worse, but let's not over egg things - and I say that as a lawyer.
 
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Antman

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Yes - if one panel of the roof has come down, there is every chance a neighbouring panel may do so as well, causing injury.

Possibly but without being there it is impossible to know, maybe passengers just moved out of the affected area?
 

Via Bank

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This is the second time in less than a year that a Southern 455 has experienced a catastrophic material failure that, in different circumstances, could've resulted in serious injury or death (see also the spontaneous 455 decoupling last year.) This should, quite simply, not be happening.

Serious questions should now be asked about the maintenance regime and condition of these units. Perhaps RAIB should be informed?
 

ExRes

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Is it not possible that this panel has been taken down by a fitter and simply not been replaced and tightened properly?

I know that spoils the possibility that 455s are a death trap and about to kill a large percentage of the passengers that use them, but I'm sure the media will be able to think of another story quite soon

Personally I'm just disturbed about the 'no offer of tea' aspect, surely those regular travellers affected should at least be expecting a latte .........
 
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