Route Branding

[Stef434]

We all know how beneficial branding has but it has more downsides
The depot has to make PVR every morning, he/she will have spare buses ,relating to the size of the depot fleet percentage and total depot mileage this will vary depot to depot.
A controller will allocate all branded buses to the appropriate service bearing in mind FiG will have inspections and MOTs etc etc these are call retainers ,they can be used if kept local and be near a First Site not exclusively a depot by a certain time, only if no defects have been reported that will deem bus not fit for purpose.
Branded buses WILL and CAN be used on other services by depots as lost mileage will be questioned if a service is lost ,despite a branded bus being spare due to any reason.
Branded buses will be placed on their branded service at the earliest opportunity if they have been previously displaced, mileage permitting.
Recently FiG1/FiG2 has had an extraordinary amount of branded buses appearing on non branded routes that has hee haw to do with the above this is an internal issue which cant be reported on an open forum

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We all know how beneficial branding has but it has more downsides
The depot has to make PVR every morning, he/she will have spare buses ,relating to the size of the depot fleet percentage and total depot mileage this will vary depot to depot.
A controller will allocate all branded buses to the appropriate service bearing in mind FiG will have inspections and MOTs etc etc these are call retainers ,they can be used if kept local and be near a First Site not exclusively a depot by a certain time, only if no defects have been reported that will deem bus not fit for purpose.
Branded buses WILL and CAN be used on other services by depots as lost mileage will be questioned if a service is lost ,despite a branded bus being spare due to any reason.
Branded buses will be placed on their branded service at the earliest opportunity if they have been previously displaced, mileage permitting.
Recently FiG1/FiG2 has had an extraordinary amount of branded buses appearing on non branded routes that has hee haw to do with the above this is an internal issue which cant be reported on an open forum

This is a subject as old as the hills.

The best operators will brand up to the PVR or usually fewer. They will then have spare vehicles in neutral colours. However, the best laid plans can always go awry and when it does, you have a choice. Use a branded vehicle on the wrong route OR ensure that the travelling public get the bus they need.

Or course, you will get the enthusiasts reacting in either a) it's great, I saw a 37 on a 52 or b) it's awful as it doesn't suit my OCD (and how terrible it must be for the customers)

Branding does work and, shock horror, we're even seeing it in continental Europe.

 

[Stef434]

This is a subject as old as the hills.

The best operators will brand up to the PVR or usually fewer. They will then have spare vehicles in neutral colours. However, the best laid plans can always go awry and when it does, you have a choice. Use a branded vehicle on the wrong route OR ensure that the travelling public get the bus they need.

Or course, you will get the reacting in either a) it's great, I saw a 37 on a 52 or b) it's awful as it doesn't suit my OCD (and how terrible it must be for the customers)

Branding does work and, shock horror, we're even seeing it in continental Europe.

its true its bleeding old ,it is old as the hills been over this many times but the enthusiasts seem to batter the operator when they've probably never been in the coldface so bloody frustrating

 

[PaulMc7]

Quite like how the branding is used in Glasgow tbh. The only problem I can think of that might come with branded buses ending up on other routes is if someone hasn't used a route often and gets on another service that isn't what the branded bus normally operates on by mistake. Other than that it's completely fine. Ideally the bigger issue of reliability is the one that needs dealt with between First and the council. Genuinely don't think people would ever complain if buses were on time all the time. Obviously there's reasons for it sometimes but when services are generally late a lot I can understand other people's frustrations

 

[edwin_m]

I suspect another reason to adopt branding is that operators can charge advertisers a bit more to have their publicity targeted at specific parts of the city. Here in Nottingham a lot of the adverts on specific coloured buses seem to be for businesses in districts served by that colour route.

 

[Samuel88]

TfL tried route branding but their efforts seem to have fallen by the wayside...

 

[carlberry]

TfL tried route branding but their efforts seem to have fallen by the wayside...

TfL's trial appeared designed to fail so that TfL can say it's another thing that cant work in London.

 

[ChrisPJ]

Future of branding has got to be some sort of TV panel type arrangement on the sides with content that changes to match whatever’s on the destination screen, suitably ruggedised of course.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

TfL's trial appeared designed to fail so that TfL can say it's another thing that cant work in London.

Agreed - it was perfunctory at best https://www.flickr.com/photos/13264...qm2-FkH1mK-aoMgBa-pejsLK-dsdqVv-e886Rj-bN5o3e

 

[CM]

Agreed - it was perfunctory at best https://www.flickr.com/photos/13264...qm2-FkH1mK-aoMgBa-pejsLK-dsdqVv-e886Rj-bN5o3e

God that's awful! I've seen some bad route branding in my time but that really has to be the worst.

 

[randyrippley]

Blackpool tried it and gave up, caused too many problems

Part of Stagecoach's "green" fleet for the Lakes 555 are based at Morecambe and are more likely to be seen on anything other than the 555,
Certainly creates amusement when a Lakes branded bus turns up at Blackpool or Preston

 

[NorthOxonian]

Blackpool tried it and gave up, caused too many problems

Part of Stagecoach's "green" fleet for the Lakes 555 are based at Morecambe and are more likely to be seen on anything other than the 555,
Certainly creates amusement when a Lakes branded bus turns up at Blackpool or Preston

I did read (though cannot verify) a story about the 599 buses (which are branded as "Lakesider"). Apparently, they were deliberately sent out on city routes in Liverpool and Manchester during the winter and spring, when the PVR for the route up in the Lakes is really low, so they have buses spare. The purpose was to advertise that the Lake District had high spec buses, in case any of those city residents traveled there in the summer!

 

[EnviroExplorer]

I did read (though cannot verify) a story about the 599 buses (which are branded as "Lakesider"). Apparently, they were deliberately sent out on city routes in Liverpool and Manchester during the winter and spring, when the PVR for the route up in the Lakes is really low, so they have buses spare. The purpose was to advertise that the Lake District had high spec buses, in case any of those city residents traveled there in the summer!

The buses on the 599 are open top Volvo B5TL/Gemini 3s. 1 was deliberately used in Manchester and Liverpool for one week in 2017 when the buses were new, only to advertise the new open top buses. They certainly aren’t used elsewhere in the winter.

The Enviro 400s on the 555 are split between Morecambe and Kendal depots. The majority are at Kendal and are used all year round and have the locations served by the 555 listed on the Lakes Connection livery as branding. The other 4 are based at Morecambe and see use on the 555 when the summer timetable means there are express variations from Lancaster to Kendal, which make use of these. Otherwise they just get used wherever Morecambe allocate them.

Anyone more local to the area may be able to clarify this a bit more but I hope this makes sense anyway @NorthOxonian !

 

[NorthOxonian]

The buses on the 599 are open top Volvo B5TL/Gemini 3s. 1 was deliberately used in Manchester and Liverpool for one week in 2017 when the buses were new, only to advertise the new open top buses. They certainly aren’t used elsewhere in the winter.

The Enviro 400s on the 555 are split between Morecambe and Kendal depots. The majority are at Kendal and are used all year round and have the locations served by the 555 listed on the Lakes Connection livery as branding. The other 4 are based at Morecambe and see use on the 555 when the summer timetable means there are express variations from Lancaster to Kendal, which make use of these. Otherwise they just get used wherever Morecambe allocate them.

Anyone more local to the area may be able to clarify this a bit more but I hope this makes sense anyway @NorthOxonian !

If they have Lakes Connection buses going "spare" in Morecambe, I'm surprised they don't try to send them on the 755s between Morecambe and the Lakes - I used that route on a recent trip, and was a little surprised to see that route have just a bog-standard double decker if they have buses branded for a very similar route.

 

[cnjb8]

I suspect another reason to adopt branding is that operators can charge advertisers a bit more to have their publicity targeted at specific parts of the city. Here in Nottingham a lot of the adverts on specific coloured buses seem to be for businesses in districts served by that colour route.

I am very surprised that NCT and TrentBarton haven't been talked about a lot.
Branding has worked very well for TB with route controllers rarely putting buses on routes they aren't supposed to be on. This is probably due to the abundance of spare buses at each depot. NCT used to be ok at keeping buses on their respective routes but seem to have let it slip lately

 

[PeterC]

What gets me is seeing a branded vehicle on the wrong route while its own route has unbranded vehicles running.

It can be confusing in a bus station if bays are angled so that you can't see the destination blinds. After several journeys from Aylesbury Bus Station where buses were not using the correct bays I did once jump on a branded bus that was about to leave only to find it taking the "wrong" route out of town. (Using a pass so I didn't need to state my destination)

 

[Adtrainsam]

Go North East have a wide variety of brands for used, and back in the early 2010s, some of the brands were rubbish, such as Lambton Worm or Pulse. If you were a visitor, you would’ve thought they were all separate companies!

Branding does work now, Martjin has put all liveries in a house style (2 stripes at 55 degrees with different coulors for each brand), so one can easily tell that it’s Go North East, and not 20 different companies.

Branded buses get put onto other branded/ unbranded routes often which is a disadvantage but there are many buses which are in the corporate livery, and some of the brands really look good and sell the bus service to the public.

 

[Robertj21a]

I am very surprised that NCT and TrentBarton haven't been talked about a lot.
Branding has worked very well for TB with route controllers rarely putting buses on routes they aren't supposed to be on. This is probably due to the abundance of spare buses at each depot. NCT used to be ok at keeping buses on their respective routes but seem to have let it slip lately

I think Trentbarton must have more spare buses in maroon (?) than ever before. They turn up all over the place all the time.

 

[Samuel88]

I’ve never really seen the point of route branding. If you need to get from A to B are you really going to decide not to take the bus just because it doesn’t have some pretty colours on the side? Also, what’s the point of branding a bus with a specific route if half the time the bus will be on another one?

 

[NorthOxonian]

I’ve never really seen the point of route branding. If you need to get from A to B are you really going to decide not to take the bus just because it doesn’t have some pretty colours on the side? Also, what’s the point of branding a bus with a specific route if half the time the bus will be on another one?

Some of the best quality branding can attract people out of their cars - with routes like the 36 in Leeds or the new X-Lines in the North East looking very sleek. I agree with you if branding is overused, but it can be a powerful tool in small doses.

Certainly buses with weak branding look a lot less appealing - that seems to be a particular problem with many independents (though of course in most cases their budget isn't going to stretch to incredible branding, they have bigger priorities). Some of First's branding also seems very weak.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I don’t think First Glasgow manage branding very well. They tried it with ‘the Overground’ and had buses branded up but they never stuck to it even back then.

Glasgow is a big city and it doesn’t help that many of the buses are operated out of the one depot - Caledonia is the biggest and it houses a lot of the main routes. It must be near impossible to get every bus out the depot in order. In the mornings I regularly see any bus for the morning 61 heading along the M74. The 61 has branded B9TLs but even then you can find them on the 87 while the route that they are actually branded for have something totally different. I like the idea but I really don’t think it works. Of course in theory it’s better wrong branded bus than no bus but it majorly defeats the purpose of branding in the first place!

 

[43055]

I think Trentbarton must have more spare buses in maroon (?) than ever before. They turn up all over the place all the time.

They certainly do turn up all over the place but a few routes do not have branding. Looking at a trentbarton fleet list some 20% of the fleet is not branded (53 vehicles out of 270). In some cases branding does work and they don't. While Trent are very good at improving brands like Skylink which the yellow one might go up to every 15 min soon (double the frequency of a few years ago) they may not work as well such as the rushcliff villager which has gone from 4 routes to one in the same amount of time. On the other hand arriva just like put anything anywhere even if enough buses are available for the branded route.

 

[cnjb8]

They certainly do turn up all over the place but a few routes do not have branding. Looking at a trentbarton fleet list some 20% of the fleet is not branded (53 vehicles out of 270). In some cases branding does work and they don't. While Trent are very good at improving brands like Skylink which the yellow one might go up to every 15 min soon (double the frequency of a few years ago) they may not work as well such as the rushcliff villager which has gone from 4 routes to one in the same amount of time. On the other hand arriva just like put anything anywhere even if enough buses are available for the branded route.

The Citaros are having reliability issues so may be replace along with Kinch 2 ones.
I think the PVR decrease on Rushcliffe Villager is down to the unprofitablity of the route which Yourbus struggled with too. Now CT4N and Vectare operate a split version of the former V2 and 822

 

[randyrippley]

If they have Lakes Connection buses going "spare" in Morecambe, I'm surprised they don't try to send them on the 755s between Morecambe and the Lakes - I used that route on a recent trip, and was a little surprised to see that route have just a bog-standard double decker if they have buses branded for a very similar route.

Very rare to see them on the 755, much more likely to be on the University or Preston services
It might be because the majority of 755 users seem to be OAPs on passes, while Preston and Uni journeys tend to be paying customers

 

[NorthOxonian]

Very rare to see them on the 755, much more likely to be on the University or Preston services
It might be because the majority of 755 users seem to be OAPs on passes, while Preston and Uni journeys tend to be paying customers

Yes, I think I was the only fare-paying passenger on the 755 when I went on (and considering the mileage I'd already got out of my day ticket, the marginal benefit from me might have been even smaller than the reimbursements from the ENCTS)!

 

[randyrippley]

Yes, I think I was the only fare-paying passenger on the 755 when I went on (and considering the mileage I'd already got out of my day ticket, the marginal benefit from me might have been even smaller than the reimbursements from the ENCTS)!

Its amusing to hear the little old ladies indulging in competitive rivalry to see how far they can get in a day..........trying to get to Cockermouth or Carlisle or Penrith or Dent and back. One i heard reckoned she could get to Gretna but that seemed unlikely.
Another amusing point was that the first 755 north used to run north along Morecambe Prom before the 9:30 watershed, so they'd get single tickets to Happy Mount Park, all get off and then get back on again using their passes. Some drivers just ran deliberately five minutes late to avoid the hassle

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I don’t think First Glasgow manage branding very well. They tried it with ‘the Overground’ and had buses branded up but they never stuck to it even back then.

The "Overground" branding never really worked in Halifax or Huddersfield, it semed that only half of the First fleet ever had it appiled, likewise in Huddersfield where branding was selective. First Leeds seems to have got it right with the brash LeedsCity branding, from what I remember Leeds was the only place where route branding worked in West Yorkshire.

 

[xc170]

God that's awful! I've seen some bad route branding in my time but that really has to be the worst.

I'd say this is the worst attempt...

 

[route101]

Quite like how the branding is used in Glasgow tbh. The only problem I can think of that might come with branded buses ending up on other routes is if someone hasn't used a route often and gets on another service that isn't what the branded bus normally operates on by mistake. Other than that it's completely fine. Ideally the bigger issue of reliability is the one that needs dealt with between First and the council. Genuinely don't think people would ever complain if buses were on time all the time. Obviously there's reasons for it sometimes but when services are generally late a lot I can understand other people's frustrations

Seen a 75 branded bus on 7a yesterday

 

[SCH117X]

I was on a off route branded Transdev bus; the passengers unused to the larger than normal vehicles started taking note of the internal route specific promotions on the inside so it clearly had a good marketing effect. Obviously depends on how well the entire route branding is carried out - just painting something on the outside is not going to have any more effect than a bus with all over paid for advert or in the case of the posting to above being an promotion for using Nescafe original every 4 minutes!