Route closure leading to greatest strategic loss

[47271]

Inspired by the thread examining routes between the Forth Bridge and Perth...

Edinburgh to Inverness: Forth Bridge

In the mid 1980s I went to university in Edinburgh and regularly took the train back and forth from my home near Inverness. Initially, trains always went across the Forth Bridge, then latterly they followed a new route through West Lothian, bypassing the bridge. Does anyone know why this route...

www.railforums.co.uk

...I was wondering if any other UK route closure led to a greater strategic loss than Glenfarg, being as it substantially increased journey times between Edinburgh and the Highlands?

Loss of other main lines like the Waverley Route or Strathmore aren't really in the same league because they didn't damage journey times across longer distances, for example it didn't take longer to get from Edinburgh to Carlisle, or Glasgow to Aberdeen respectively.

So, anywhere else as damaging an overall loss as Glenfarg?

 

[RT4038]

Inspired by the thread examining routes between the Forth Bridge and Perth...

Edinburgh to Inverness: Forth Bridge

In the mid 1980s I went to university in Edinburgh and regularly took the train back and forth from my home near Inverness. Initially, trains always went across the Forth Bridge, then latterly they followed a new route through West Lothian, bypassing the bridge. Does anyone know why this route...

www.railforums.co.uk

...I was wondering if any other UK route closure led to a greater strategic loss than Glenfarg, being as it substantially increased journey times between Edinburgh and the Highlands?

Loss of other main lines like the Waverley Route or Strathmore aren't really in the same league because they didn't damage journey times across longer distances, for example it didn't take longer to get from Edinburgh to Carlisle, or Glasgow to Aberdeen respectively.

So, anywhere else as damaging an overall loss as Glenfarg?

The Glenfarg line had closed long before the mid-80s.

 

[Ianno87]

Oxford-Cambridge.

 

[341o2]

Okehampton to Bere Alston. It was opposed at the time and done for economic reasons rather than lack of use

 

[Horizon22]

Grand Central line must be in with a shout.

 

[daodao]

In GB, the East Lincs line from Boston to Grimsby.

In Ireland, the Derry Road from Portadown to Derry.

 

[steamybrian]

Uckfield to Lewes

Severed an alternative route between London and the Sussex Coast.
Closed to enable an relief road in Lewes to be built.

 

[daodao]

Inspired by the thread examining routes between the Forth Bridge and Perth...

Edinburgh to Inverness: Forth Bridge

In the mid 1980s I went to university in Edinburgh and regularly took the train back and forth from my home near Inverness. Initially, trains always went across the Forth Bridge, then latterly they followed a new route through West Lothian, bypassing the bridge. Does anyone know why this route...

www.railforums.co.uk

...I was wondering if any other UK route closure led to a greater strategic loss than Glenfarg, being as it substantially increased journey times between Edinburgh and the Highlands?

Loss of other main lines like the Waverley Route or Strathmore aren't really in the same league because they didn't damage journey times across longer distances, for example it didn't take longer to get from Edinburgh to Carlisle, or Glasgow to Aberdeen respectively.

So, anywhere else as damaging an overall loss as Glenfarg?

I disagree. Re-opening of the Perth to Ladybank line to passenger traffic in the 1970s means that there is now an hourly though train service from Edinburgh to Perth.

It did not destroy rail access to a substantial area, unlike the actions of the Stormont administration in the Six Counties, which mutilated the GNR in 1957 and then closed the Derry Road in 1965. Together with the closure of the SL&NCR and CDR, this has left 5 of the 9 counties of Ulster without any rail services whatsoever, to this day.

 

[trebor79]

March to Spalding. All the container trains now have to go via Peterborough.

 

[daodao]

March to Spalding. All the container trains now have to go via Peterborough.

I agree. The closures of railways in Lincolnshire and East Anglia went too far. The vast numbers of manual level crossings added to operating costs.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Moat Lane - Aberhonddu/Brecon - Merthyr

Trains from the top of Wales to the bottom now have to go through England

 

[edwin_m]

Another vote for Oxford-Cambridge. This area is mostly quite densely populated but its rail links are now almost entirely north-south.

 

[yorksrob]

Okehampton to Bere Alston. It was opposed at the time and done for economic reasons rather than lack of use

Definitely agree with that one. A disastrous decision.

Uckfield to Lewes

Severed an alternative route between London and the Sussex Coast.
Closed to enable an relief road in Lewes to be built.

This one too. I'm also inclined to think of Christs Hospital - Shoreham in the same light - a greater proportion of the overall route between London and Brighton was already electrified, the intermediate stations had a lot of potential value and it was possible to avoid almost all of the BML if going via Mitcham Junction.

In addition to these, I would add:

- Chinley to Matlock - loss of an alternative London - Manchester route, more freight capacity, better links between the North West and the East Midlands, more potential for tourism.

- The Somerset and Dorset - without it, the Bournemouth conurbation is cut off from Bristol and the West without a substantial detour.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Dumfries to Stranraer put many additional miles from Carlisle and beyond to Stranraer, running almost 50 miles further north to Mauchline before heading west then south, with further miles added when the east to south curve at Ayr closed and trains rerouted via Kilmarnock.

Interestingly the closure of the line from Dunblane to Crianlarich enabled faster journey times between Glasgow and Oban.

 

[davetheguard]

Definitely agree with that one. A disastrous decision.

Anyone know who the Transport Secretary was at the time who authorised Okehampton to Bere Alston closure? Always good to name & shame even 50+ years on. I presume it was our old friend who owned a road construction firm: Ernest Marples who was the guilty party; or had Labour taken over by then?

 

[Grumbler]

I would vote for the Midland route between Derby and Manchester.

 

[yorksrob]

Anyone know who the Transport Secretary was at the time who authorised Okehampton to Bere Alston closure? Always good to name & shame even 50+ years on. I presume it was our old friend who owned a road construction firm: Ernest Marples who was the guilty party; or had Labour taken over by then?

6th May 1968, so would have been on Richard Marsh's (Lab) watch.

 

[daodao]

Anyone know who the Transport Secretary was at the time who authorised Okehampton to Bere Alston closure? Always good to name & shame even 50+ years on. I presume it was our old friend who owned a road construction firm: Ernest Marples who was the guilty party; or had Labour taken over by then?

No - it was not a strategic route - it was not the main route from Plymouth to Exeter. If it wasn't for the issues with the sea wall at Dawlish, the possibility of re-opening Okehampton to Tavistock wouldn't even be on the agenda.

 

[Iskra]

Stainmore has left a massive East-West rail gap in the North of the country, granted it doesn't travel through a densely populated area, but in terms of the additional journey time penalty for someone travelling between Durham and Penrith or Lancashire for example it must be quite significant.

 

[Western Lord]

Anyone know who the Transport Secretary was at the time who authorised Okehampton to Bere Alston closure? Always good to name & shame even 50+ years on. I presume it was our old friend who owned a road construction firm: Ernest Marples who was the guilty party; or had Labour taken over by then?

Like all closures between October 1964 and June 1970, which is most of the so called Beeching closures, this was down to the Labour Government which campaigned on a "we'll stop the Beeching closures" ticket and then did no such thing, but added closure of lines that Beeching hadn't included for good measure.

 

[yorksrob]

No - it was not a strategic route - it was not the main route from Plymouth to Exeter. If it wasn't for the issues with the sea wall at Dawlish, the possibility of re-opening Okehampton to Tavistock wouldn't even be on the agenda.

Yes it was. By your argument, Crewe - Manchester wouldn't be part of a strategic route to Manchester.

 

[Senex]

Loss of other main lines like the Waverley Route or Strathmore aren't really in the same league because they didn't damage journey times across longer distances, for example it didn't take longer to get from Edinburgh to Carlisle, or Glasgow to Aberdeen respectively.

Did the Glasgow-Aberdeen diversion via Dundee really not add much time? The route via Forfar was really a pretty fast piece of railway.

 

[S&CLER]

The Banbury-Leicester section of the GC; if this had been preserved and a chord built at Ullesthorpe to link it with the Midland Counties line to Leicester, there wouldn't now be a blind spot between the East Midlands and the Thames Valley. It would have had some freight potential too.

 

[yorksrob]

The Banbury-Leicester section of the GC; if this had been preserved and a chord built at Ullesthorpe to link it with the Midland Counties line to Leicester, there wouldn't now be a blind spot between the East Midlands and the Thames Valley. It would have had some freight potential too.

Had it continued up through Nottingham and Mansfield to Tuxford, we could have had a fast NE/SW cross country route via the East Midlands !

 

[A0wen]

Yes it was. By your argument, Crewe - Manchester wouldn't be part of a strategic route to Manchester.

Poor example that.

The Southern route to Plymouth didn't serve anywhere of significance en route, was slower and longer than the GW route.

Whereas Crewe - Manchester linked Crewe (significant at the time given the works there) with Manchester, it also allows access from Mid and South Wales into Manchester, which couldn't easily be done.

Like all closures between October 1964 and June 1970, which is most of the so called Beeching closures, this was down to the Labour Government which campaigned on a "we'll stop the Beeching closures" ticket and then did no such thing, but added closure of lines that Beeching hadn't included for good measure.

This - 100%.

It was under Labour's watch that the GC was closed as well as Matlock - Chinley.

Neither were Beeching closures - on the GC the recommendation was to keep the route as a secondary line and on the Midland to Manchester, Beeching said to keep Woodhead and Chinley - Matlock and close the Hope Valley - BR did the exact opposite.....

 

[Stathern Jc]

A good subject to make us think, and my first few thoughts have come up already.

Can't help thinking it must take some time to get from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.
But it probably wasn't very quick when the direct line was there; and numbers would hardly justify describing it as a strategic link unless you were one of those using it.

 

[yorksrob]

Poor example that.

The Southern route to Plymouth didn't serve anywhere of significance en route, was slower and longer than the GW route.

Whereas Crewe - Manchester linked Crewe (significant at the time given the works there) with Manchester, it also allows access from Mid and South Wales into Manchester, which couldn't easily be done.

I would argue that Okehampton and Tavistock are significant centres in Devon. In terms of being slower and longer, it was slightly, but not significantly.

 

[hexagon789]

Did the Glasgow-Aberdeen diversion via Dundee really not add much time? The route via Forfar was really a pretty fast piece of railway.

It's only 1.5 miles longer and Perth-Dundee is pretty fast. Back then both lines were limited by the Scottish Region 75mph ceiling and the Perth-Dundee had the advantage of not having a low speed PSR for Forfar right in the middle, though as all trains called at Forfar than might be a moot point.

 

[Stathern Jc]

And we can only speculate about how much growth there would have been at towns like Tavistock and Okehampton if they still had a connection that could have been used by commuters and others to Plymouth and Exeter. But I think there would have been quite a bit more.

 

[RT4038]

Oh no - not another chance to go bashing decisions made over 50 years ago in a completely different era.

It all depends what is meant by 'strategic' - lines on a map or potential for business?

Based on the latter, and evidenced by the amount of traffic conveyed since re-opening, I would suggest that the closure of the line from Farringdon to Holborn Viaduct (Low Level) has been the greatest strategic loss (and since re-instated)