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Routeing Guide 'Easements' amended 14/03/2012

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John55

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Finsbury Park - Cambridge no longer being valid via Kings Cross is a big one, which lots of people use (including a few I know personally) due to the "Cambridge Cruiser" non-stop service being so much quicker - and unless it's advertised clearly at all affected stations, it's going to cause a LOT of problems..

This is something which puzzles me. Why was a ticket from Cambridge to Finsbury Park ever valid via Kings Cross?

Was it because at one time no Cambridge trains stopped south of say Hitchin and there were no other services which allowed a connection onto the locals south of Welwyn GC? Or is there some other reason I have missed?

There are now 2 trains per hour (off peak) which provide a direct service from Cambridge to Finsbury Park so it seems logical to me that passengers should use those. While one is semi-fast and the other slow using the semi-fast is quicker than using the non-stop trains for much of the hour.

I can understand why people paying for a Cambridge to Zone 2-6 season ticket don't want to pay for a Cambridge to Zone 1-6 season which seems to be tha major effect of this change but that seems to be an odd anomaly anyway.

Are there any other places where this kind of doubling back is allowed (I understand if the specific routes are not spelled out)?
 
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bnm

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There are quite a few places where doubling back is allowed to improve journey opportunities. Doubling back is allowed between stations within the Routeing Guide's 'Group Stations':

Some stations are grouped together to improve interchange between trains by offering customers access to a wider choice of train services and station facilities. A customer may travel via any station in such a group, including doubling back, provided that the group is on one of the permitted routes between their origin and destination stations. This extended availability is for interchange purposes only and does not apply where the origin or destination stations are part of a group.

As well as the doubling back allowed at 'Group Stations' there are numerous easements which permit doubling back to improve journey opportunities.

Best read all the easements if you want to discover other doubling back opportunities. ;)
 

RJ

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Are there any other places where this kind of doubling back is allowed (I understand if the specific routes are not spelled out)?

Yep! Doubling back is permitted on my favourite mainline between West Hampstead Thameslink and St Pancras.
 

John55

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There are quite a few places where doubling back is allowed to improve journey opportunities. Doubling back is allowed between stations within the Routeing Guide's 'Group Stations':



As well as the doubling back allowed at 'Group Stations' there are numerous easements which permit doubling back to improve journey opportunities.

Best read all the easements if you want to discover other doubling back opportunities. ;)

Finsbury park is not part of the London group so that doesn't apply.
 

34D

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This is something which puzzles me. Why was a ticket from Cambridge to Finsbury Park ever valid via Kings Cross?

Was it because at one time no Cambridge trains stopped south of say Hitchin and there were no other services which allowed a connection onto the locals south of Welwyn GC? Or is there some other reason I have missed?

There are now 2 trains per hour (off peak) which provide a direct service from Cambridge to Finsbury Park so it seems logical to me that passengers should use those. While one is semi-fast and the other slow using the semi-fast is quicker than using the non-stop trains for much of the hour.

I can understand why people paying for a Cambridge to Zone 2-6 season ticket don't want to pay for a Cambridge to Zone 1-6 season which seems to be tha major effect of this change but that seems to be an odd anomaly anyway.

Are there any other places where this kind of doubling back is allowed (I understand if the specific routes are not spelled out)?

I'm going to try and do the history and get it all wrong (even though I used to live in Hitchin) so please correct me other members.

When GN electrification happened in the mid 70s, it only went as far as Royston. I believe that fast class 31 hauled "cambridge buffet expresses" served Kings Cross to Cambridge (calling points not known by me) and class 312 units did KX-royston, with similar patterns to present. Class 101s (etc) did stoppers Royston-Cambridge.

Note that this easement did NOT permit a cambridge - zones 2-6 ticket to be used in zone 1 as none of the easements (I don't think) affect zonal systems.
 

transmanche

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I'm going to try and do the history and get it all wrong (even though I used to live in Hitchin) so please correct me other members.

When GN electrification happened in the mid 70s, it only went as far as Royston. I believe that fast class 31 hauled "cambridge buffet expresses" served Kings Cross to Cambridge (calling points not known by me) and class 312 units did KX-royston, with similar patterns to present. Class 101s (etc) did stoppers Royston-Cambridge.
I think all through services from King's Cross to Cambridge ceased upon GN electrification to Royston (or very soon afterwards). Liverpool Street then became the 'focus' for fast services to Cambridge.

It's only when electrification was extended from Royston that through Cambridge services returned to King's Cross - which then became the 'focus' station for fast services to Cambridge.
 

furryfeet

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Losing 10002 is a right nuisance - purpose to enable more use of rail replacement coaches?
Ditto 10009 !
Does this mean that ATOC are effectively allowing virgin NOT to provide diversions via the S&C ?
I note that on another thread, there is only ONE through train from Glasgow to Preston and return on 08 April, in an era when the railway industry has stated that "it was going to provide more trains during engineering works and reduce the reliance on replacement buses". Seems not to be the case here.
 

34D

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I think all through services from King's Cross to Cambridge ceased upon GN electrification to Royston (or very soon afterwards). Liverpool Street then became the 'focus' for fast services to Cambridge.

It's only when electrification was extended from Royston that through Cambridge services returned to King's Cross - which then became the 'focus' station for fast services to Cambridge.

Thank you for this
 

yorkie

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Finsbury park is not part of the London group so that doesn't apply.
Sorry, I don't follow. What doesn't apply? Perhaps you misread or misunderstood; bnm said that there are easements that permit doubling back, as well as the Group Stations rule.

Can I also add that sometimes the shortest route by scheduled services will require a double back. Not in many cases, but it can happen.
 

John55

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Sorry, I don't follow. What doesn't apply? Perhaps you misread or misunderstood; bnm said that there are easements that permit doubling back, as well as the Group Stations rule.

Can I also add that sometimes the shortest route by scheduled services will require a double back. Not in many cases, but it can happen.

The reply from bnm contained a lot of text (prob 80% of his reply) referring to group stations including a quote from the routing guide about group stations. Kings Cross and Finsbury Park are not group stations so I made the comment.

I understand easements being made to allow better journeys especially when the shortest journey involves a change at a poorly served station and changing at a more distant station allows better choice of interchange etc. I do not understand why Finsbury Park which is not in the same fare zone as Kings Cross has an easement to allow journeys into Kings Cross to travel to Cambridge.

Off peak (at least) there is a now a reasonable direct service from Finsbury Park to Cambridge so there seems no point in having the easement. My original question was to ask if originally there was no direct service with no chance to change north of Finsbury Park so an easement to allow travel via Kings Cross would be the only way to make the journey. I don't have a pre electrification timetable for the Kings Cross to Cambridge service hence my question.
 

bnm

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The reply from bnm contained a lot of text (prob 80% of his reply) referring to group stations including a quote from the routing guide about group stations. Kings Cross and Finsbury Park are not group stations so I made the comment.

You asked if there were any other places where doubling back is permitted. It follows that I wasn't referring specifically to Finsbury Park, as it is no longer permitted there!
 

PaulLothian

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This change appears to raise a number of questions. Clarification, please (if any is possible)...

"700224. Customers travelling from Glasgow Stations to Exhibition Centre (Glasgow) may not travel via Partick. This easement applies in both directions."

Scotrail's journey planner/ticket engine has stopped showing a route to Exhibition Centre via Partick from various places (e.g. Linlithgow) that as far as I can remember have previously been valid. I have certainly used that route many times!

As far as I can see from the Scotrail site, stations on the Edinburgh - Airdrie - QS line no longer have any tickets at all to Exhibition Centre ("No tickets are available, please refine your search")

Even allowing for the rather bizarre nature of this easement, this appears to be a return to the previous ticketing issues for this traffic flow that followed the opening of the Airdrie - Bathgate route.

On a related issue, I note that the fare from either Queen Street or Central to Exhibition Centre is the same, although you get a bus trip through the city thrown in if you buy your ticket at Queen Street! The journey time is about the same as travelling via Partick, but with less tunnel wall...

I have just discovered that the ScotRail website allows you to buy a ticket from Linlithgow to Anderston (the stop between Exhibition Centre and Glasgow Central) for which it offers the route via Partick!

Somehow I feel there must be some other agenda here... reducing the number of overexcited Take That fans mobbing Partick Station while changing trains after a reunion tour concert? Or was it a result of someone having an eye put out by a length of mishandled flexi-track after ModelRail Scotland?

Will explore this more with ScotRail!
 
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