Rovers rangers and railcard restrictions

[37401]

Hi all I recall there being a time where there are no restrictions on rovers and rangers on M-F, are these restrictions lifted yet?


Ta

Ian

 

[87031]

As far as im aware there is the usual Mon-Fri restrictions regarding use before 900am on most rovers but there a few exceptions on some like Freedom Of South West and a couple of the Scottish ones. Its always been the major drawback with these tickets but back in the BR days most guards didnt care if you where a few minutes early say 830 using the ticket but its probably changed now but im not sure. ALR is the one still with no restriction so £430 represents decent value, even better with railcard discount.

 

[Paul Kelly]

As far as I can see Freedom of South West has a 9am restriction. But others such as the Cumbria day rangers, some Welsh ones, Yorkshire Coast Day Range have no restrictions. And there is no consistency in the rest - lots of variation between 0845, 0900, 0915 etc. and also in the railcard discounts allowed on them. See attached for a little list of all the rovers, railcard discounts and restrictions that I extracted from NFM06 if anyone is interested.

 

[wintonian]

This site is also upto date and quite good: http://www.railrover.org

The All Network Downlander has a 10:00 restriction - they do very and afternoon restrictions apply to trains out of Paddington and Reading.

 

[142094]

Best to check the individual leaflets/info on each rover, as most seem to follow no same format regarding restrictions etc at all.

 

[37401]

Yeah the one I do is after 0845 but I'm sure last august time I got on on a m-f before 0845

 

[142094]

Which rover was that? I know Northern usually change their rovers after about a year, last time they changed them the price went up but I think the restrictions remained just about the same (normal one I use is the Tyne and Tees Day Ranger).

 

[bnm]

Thames Branches Day Ranger looks great value. Only 50p more than a CDR from Reading, but importantly no evening peak restriction from Paddington.

I've found a new and cheaper way to split my tickets for a day out to London from Bristol. Yay!

 

[wintonian]

I think you may be out of luck there as the FGW website states:

Please note that these tickets cannot be used on some evening peak services from London Paddington and Reading. Find out about the terms and conditions for the Thames Rover and Ranger and the services that the tickets cannot be used on.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=2069

The list of restricted trains is as follows with the 1st listed time being from Paddington and the 2nd from Reading:

1606 Penzance
1615 1642 Swansea
1630 1659 Taunton
1633 1705 Exeter St Davids
1645 1712 Swansea
1651 1718 Oxford
1700 1727 Bristol Temple Meads
1703 1732 Penzance
1715 1743 Swansea
1722 1751 Hereford
1730 1757 Taunton
1733 1802 Paignton
1745 Carmarthen
1748 1817 Cheltenham Spa
1751 1822 Worcester Shrub Hill
1800 1827 Bristol Temple Meads
1803 Penzance
1815 1843 Swansea
1821 1852 Hereford
1830 1857 Weston-Super-Mare
1836 1904 Exeter St Davids / Plymouth
1845 Swansea
1848 1918 Cheltenham Spa
1851 1923 Oxford
1900 1928 Bristol Temple Meads
1903 1933 Plymouth / Penzance
1915 1942 Swansea

 

[bnm]

Ah, but am I out of luck? You think I didn't look at FGW's website to see what they had to say? National Rail Enquiries says otherwise as does the entry in The Manual.

As others have said with similar ambiguity in ticket validities:

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

Written contracts
7. - (2) If there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail

 

[janb]

Ah, but am I out of luck? You think I didn't look at FGW's website to see what they had to say? National Rail Enquiries says otherwise as does the entry in The Manual.

The Manual certainly does have the list of restricted trains for the Thames Branch Day Ranger. Even adding the 1600 to the list posted by wintonian.

 

[bnm]

My apologies, I meant the extracted information from NFM 06, not The Manual.

Still, National Rail Enquiries makes no mention of barred trains, merely saying 'valid after 0930'. And where do TOCs advise we go for fares and ticket information?

 

[Paul Kelly]

I suspect the information on restrictions etc. that I extracted from the NFM06 data files is what you would see if you looked up the rover on a guard's ticket issuing machine. But as you can't read it with the Avantix Traveller software and need to write your own computer program to read the data files, you might have difficulty arguing that it "counts" as a valid written term or condition. On the other hand it's not encrypted and it is publicly available...

 

[wintonian]

I should have known that this was going to be another complicated, source disagreement.

Mind you I did also note that the T&C's on FGW's site referred to the Thames Rover and doesn’t mention the word ranger at all – I assumed this was just an omission.

 

[Deerfold]

FGW's website at http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=2093 does list the trains (as above) this cannot be used on. I'm fairly sure they're listed in the leaflet about this ticket, but I'm not sure if this is available on-line.

 

[bnm]

Ah, but I can argue I've only looked at National Rail Enquiries where, under 'Validity' it says:

Available after 0930 (Monday-Fridays) or when Cheap Day Return is valid (whichever is earlier)
Available all day Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.
Only available within the area shown on the map.

As this is a more favourable term for me, the consumer, it's the one relevant in consumer contract law.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I suspect the information on restrictions etc. that I extracted from the NFM06 data files is what you would see if you looked up the rover on a guard's ticket issuing machine. But as you can't read it with the Avantix Traveller software and need to write your own computer program to read the data files, you might have difficulty arguing that it "counts" as a valid written term or condition. On the other hand it's not encrypted and it is publicly available...

The Guards ticket machines (Avantix) do not list any restrictions or maps or times for any rover ticket. It is impossible to view any information for any Rover ticket anywhere on the Avantix machines.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

On a similar point.

If I buy a West Yorkshire Day Rover AND a Greater Manchester equivalent. Can I travel between Marsden and Greenfield using the tickets, or do I have to purchase a connecting single ticket?

 

[John @ home]

If I buy a West Yorkshire Day Rover AND a Greater Manchester equivalent. Can I travel between Marsden and Greenfield using the tickets

No.

do I have to purchase a connecting single ticket?

You must buy a ticket from the last station at which your train stops in West Yorkshire to the first station at which your train stops in Greater Manchester, or vice-versa.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

No.You must buy a ticket from the last station at which your train stops in West Yorkshire to the first station at which your train stops in Greater Manchester, or vice-versa.

Shame the "joint" stations does not apply then (as in Darton, Denby Dale, Moorthorpe and Sth Elmsall with WYPTE and SYPTE)

Guess it will have to be the £2.60 return Walsden to Littleborough then (rather than the ridiculous £5.20return Marsden to Greenfield)

 

[wintonian]

No.You must buy a ticket from the last station at which your train stops in West Yorkshire to the first station at which your train stops in Greater Manchester, or vice-versa.

Almost, as a rover is a zonal ticket the train need not stop at the point where you change from one ticket to the other.

The NRCoC says this:

"19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire
journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not."

The definition of a “zonal ticket” is:

"“Zonal Tickets” are those tickets which permit travel only within a defined
area.

 

[clagmonster]

The question is then what is the boundary of the defined area in which the rover is valid. The map for the GM Rail Ranger shows the ticket as valid up to the county boundary, a little beyond Littleborough/Greenfield.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/manag...d788a6a614755683b8f/areaMap/gmpte_new_map.pdf

However, the map for the West Yorkshire rover shows no validity beyond Walsden/Marsden, therefore using just the two rovers you would not have a valid ticket from the county boundary to Walsden/Marsden.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/manag...b95db8b12ad320b5f/areaMap/WYPTE_Metrocard.pdf

A point to point ticket is not a zonal ticket, so the train on which you cross the border must stop at both the origin and destination of the ticket you purchase to bridge the gap.

 

[wintonian]

True, I'm thinking of "leisure travel pass" i.e. multi day rovers again - where I most often use the condition.

Edit:

When you get on the train going from one area to the other (wherever it stops) find the guard and tell them that you have the appropriate rovers and ask if you can buy a ticket between whichever stations the train stops at, I have a feeling the guard might just let you travel without buying an almost unnecessary ticket, or do people think this idea is flawed?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The Guards ticket machines (Avantix) do not list any restrictions or maps or times for any rover ticket. It is impossible to view any information for any Rover ticket anywhere on the Avantix machines.

That's really interesting. I wonder what the point of having the restriction codes there is then, and what uses it if neither Avantix Traveller nor Avantix Mobile is able to view them. The Cambrian Coast Evening Family Ranger, for example, even has a special restriction code MG, with helpful information written just for it:

Restriction code MG:
CCF CAMBRIAN COAST
EVENING FAMILY RANGER
OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid for travel after 18.30.
Minimum 1 adult and 1 child in
group. No unaccompanied children
permitted.
RETURN TRAVEL

 

[ricdil]

This site is also upto date and quite good: http://www.railrover.org

Anyone got a valid contact address for him? rover (at) ... doesn't work and I've got some GMPTE tickets for him.

 

[wintonian]

Have you tried: speak (@) railrover.org?