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Row over German high-speed train called Anne Frank

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HarleyDavidson

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41803131

The German rail operator Deutsche Bahn (DB) has defended its decision to name a high-speed train after the world-famous Holocaust victim Anne Frank.

Anne Frank's name is among those of 25 famous Germans chosen by a jury after a public consultation.

A German conservative MP, Iris Eberl, tweetedthat it was a "tasteless" choice, as Anne Frank and other Jews had been sent by train to their deaths.

But DB spokesperson Antje Neubauer said the girl was a symbol of tolerance.

I don't see the issue, at least they didn't name one Adolf Hitler, Erwin Rommel or Heinrich Himmler!
 
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Hornet

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41803131

I don't see the issue, at least they didn't name one Adolf Hitler, Erwin Rommel or Heinrich Himmler!

Really? The Nazi's sent millions of Jews, Gypsys, etc to their deaths in extermination camps, in airless railway cattle trucks across the German Rail network. Insensitive doesn't come remotely close on how crass and stupid the idea of naming a train after a young woman, who was sent to her death on such a transportation as described above. Whoever came up with the disgusting idea of naming a train after this heroic young girl should be hanging their heads in shame, and looking for a new job.
 

Starmill

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I read this and thought it was an attempt to honour the memory of the persecuted. I don't quite see the problem, although I would certainly take into account the opposing view?

Edit: DB's justification is slightly different, it's stated within the article:

But DB spokesperson Antje Neubauer said the girl was a symbol of tolerance.

Anne Frank also represented "peaceful co-existence of different cultures, which is more important than ever in times such as this", she said.

Seems to make sense to me, although again there could be more to it than this.
 

Merseysider

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Really? The Nazi's [sic] sent millions of Jews, Gypsys, etc to their deaths in extermination camps, in airless railway cattle trucks across the German Rail network. Insensitive doesn't come remotely close on how crass and stupid the idea of naming a train after a young woman, who was sent to her death on such a transportation as described above. Whoever came up with the disgusting idea of naming a train after this heroic young girl should be hanging their heads in shame, and looking for a new job.
I don't see a problem, personally.

It's vital that the legacy of Anne Frank and others is kept alive, through whatever means.
 

Groningen

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It comes shortly after that row about Lazio Roma with Anna Frank in a AS Roma shirt. Coincidence?!
 

JonathanP

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It's the first I've heard of this 'controversy'. Most of the comment when the list first came out was about the irony of naming a train divided into 1st and 2nd class 'Karl Marx'. :)

Normally Deutsche Bahn uses place names, as is the custom for German naval vessels, and I think they should stick to that. You always get into hot water when you start picking out historical figures for anything, either for the people you did pick, or the people you didn't. I'm surprised no-one has complained that not enough of them are black/female/gay/disabled yet...
 

U-Bahnfreund

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Well, DB did use historic persons for their train services. I remember that the ICE that crashed in Eschede was service 884 "Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen", or the sleeper I took last year from Dortmund to Prague was first the "Jan Kiepura" and then the "Karl Maria von Weber".
 

fowler9

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41803131



I don't see the issue, at least they didn't name one Adolf Hitler, Erwin Rommel or Heinrich Himmler!
Rommel is an interesting one. He had at least some respect on both the allied and axis sides. I'm not going to nail my flag to the mast and say he seemed a dead good chap, I think the jury is out on him, given he fought for the Nazis he isn't off to a great start, I doubt we will ever know the whole truth. Personally Rommel comes across to me like one of Liam Neesons characters in the stories he tells as the Monster in A Monster Calls. Most people aren't good or bad, they are somewhere in between.
 

duesselmartin

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Maybe the fact that the Anne Frank centres in both Amsterdam and Frankfurt expressed concern was not considered enough.
Mind you, I still think its a storm in a tea cup.
 

Hornet

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Maybe the fact that the Anne Frank centres in both Amsterdam and Frankfurt expressed concern was not considered enough.
Mind you, I still think its a storm in a tea cup.

Perhaps it could have been named Sir Arthur Harris.
 

duesselmartin

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Could be an option for a Cologne to London Eurostar ;)
While the good in Anne Frank is not doubted by anybody crazy n their right mind, in the jury in Mr. Harris is still out.
My opinion, don't use military heros. Your bound to burn your fingers.
 

coppercapped

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Really? The Nazi's sent millions of Jews, Gypsys, etc to their deaths in extermination camps, in airless railway cattle trucks across the German Rail network. Insensitive doesn't come remotely close on how crass and stupid the idea of naming a train after a young woman, who was sent to her death on such a transportation as described above. Whoever came up with the disgusting idea of naming a train after this heroic young girl should be hanging their heads in shame, and looking for a new job.
I have a different viewpoint and agree with DBAG in its choice of name.

My reasoning is this: I lived in Germany for many years and found that the Government and people of West Germany, (in the time before the Wall came down and since) to their great credit, did not avoid admitting their guilt and compliance in the terrible events which occurred between 1933 and 1945. The story in the eastern Länder under the DDR/GDR was different which explains, but doesn't excuse, recent political developments.

There was a darker side of railway history during that period and if naming an ICE set after Anne Frank reminds everyone of it, then so be it. The horrors of that period cannot be undone. Equally we must not forget that they happened, and how over a period of years the population's mind set and expectations were shifted and their feelings de-sensitised to enable them to happen. Like the First World War already has done, the Second World War is starting to fade from living memory, two and maybe now three generations have grown up since 1945 and these events are becoming just history and the immediacy of the experiences - and the lessons to be learnt from them - are being lost.

Merkel's recent action in permitting large numbers of refugees to enter the country was brave. On the one hand she tried to lay some more of the ghosts of the 1933-45 period to rest - but it cost her votes by groups which labelled these unfortunates 'Islamists' and other such terms.

If in some small way naming a train 'Anne Frank' helps to ensure that people, politicians and governments do not treat groups of people as inanimate things - 'the French', rather than 'Jean-Yves' or 'Camille' or 'the Moslems', rather than 'Abdullah' or 'Akgül' - which is the mechanism which makes such crimes possible, then I strongly support it.

And don't think this method of making people less empathetic hasn't been tried here...
 

Groningen

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There are so many. Just because Anna Frank kept a diary made her known. The rest we know almost nothing about.

Some of the names for the 25 new ICE 4 trains that have been chosen are:
Konrad Adenauer
Ludwig Erhard
Karl Marx
Albert Einstein
Marlene Dietrich
Hannah Arendt
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Sophie and Hans Scholl

I think of:
Willy Brandt
Helmut Schmidt
Hans Dietrich-Genscher
Helmut Kohl

A statement from Deutsche Bahn in German about Anne Frank can be found here: http://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/pressestart_zentrales_uebersicht/16014662/Nameswahl_ICE4.html
 

mpthomson

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Rommel is an interesting one. He had at least some respect on both the allied and axis sides. I'm not going to nail my flag to the mast and say he seemed a dead good chap, I think the jury is out on him, given he fought for the Nazis he isn't off to a great start, I doubt we will ever know the whole truth. Personally Rommel comes across to me like one of Liam Neesons characters in the stories he tells as the Monster in A Monster Calls. Most people aren't good or bad, they are somewhere in between.

Many in the UK military view him as a very intelligent and effective General worthy of respect for his military effectiveness, but who fought on the wrong side of history. Politically he's interesting as he was never a member of the Nazi party, rather many historians view him as a successful professional soldier with a reputation for not condoning needless violence. He was implicated in the bomb plot to kill Hitler, as a result of which he committed suicide rather than face trial.

When I was studying him for a course I found one description of him, which was "an honourable man fighting for a deeply dishonourable cause". There are other authors who feel he was rather more pro-Nazi than that and there is evidence to back that up, so as you rightly say the jury is most definitely still out on him. There is still a barracks named after him in Germany, and he's still seen as the Bundeswehr's inspiration but clearly not a historical figure that you'd name a train after.
 

duesselmartin

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William Wilson would be one of my favorite, the driver of the "Adler" locomotive. For him it was not just business. He lived and died in Germany and is buried in Nuremberg. Grave St Johannis IIB / 040-170 still exists to this day.
 

fowler9

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Many in the UK military view him as a very intelligent and effective General worthy of respect for his military effectiveness, but who fought on the wrong side of history. Politically he's interesting as he was never a member of the Nazi party, rather many historians view him as a successful professional soldier with a reputation for not condoning needless violence. He was implicated in the bomb plot to kill Hitler, as a result of which he committed suicide rather than face trial.

When I was studying him for a course I found one description of him, which was "an honourable man fighting for a deeply dishonourable cause". There are other authors who feel he was rather more pro-Nazi than that and there is evidence to back that up, so as you rightly say the jury is most definitely still out on him. There is still a barracks named after him in Germany, and he's still seen as the Bundeswehr's inspiration but clearly not a historical figure that you'd name a train after.
Cheers for that info mate. My Grandfather who was on the allies side in North Africa had nothing bad to say about Rommel. (He was actually captured and then got away). We had a cat some 20 years ago, one of my brothers wanted to call him Rommel (My brother was young and trying to be controversial, ha ha), we ended up calling him Monty (The cat not my brother).
 

coppercapped

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Many in the UK military view him as a very intelligent and effective General worthy of respect for his military effectiveness, but who fought on the wrong side of history. Politically he's interesting as he was never a member of the Nazi party, rather many historians view him as a successful professional soldier with a reputation for not condoning needless violence. He was implicated in the bomb plot to kill Hitler, as a result of which he committed suicide rather than face trial.

When I was studying him for a course I found one description of him, which was "an honourable man fighting for a deeply dishonourable cause". There are other authors who feel he was rather more pro-Nazi than that and there is evidence to back that up, so as you rightly say the jury is most definitely still out on him. There is still a barracks named after him in Germany, and he's still seen as the Bundeswehr's inspiration but clearly not a historical figure that you'd name a train after.
I went to work in Ulm in southern Germany in 1974. As I was driving around the area that summer while getting to know the place I turned off the main road between Ulm and Blaubeuren and drove up the hill out of the river valley near Blaustein. There was a small parking area so I stopped to look at my map (sat-navs being a long way in the future!), realised there was a nice view and got out of the car.

There was a small plaque set into a stone which stated that Erwin Rommel had committed suicide there in 1944. That staggered me, suddenly face-to-face with history, as it were, and that I had found such a place purely by chance. I had never given any thought previously to where in Germany some of these historical figures had come from and to find out that he was 'local' was a surprise.

Rommel's son Manfred was for many years Mayor of Stuttgart during the time I was in Ulm and by all reports was well regarded even by his political opponents.
 

duesselmartin

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There are many people where Germany is itself unsure how to deal with them.
WWI veteran and Reichspräsident Paul von Hindenburg. Africa veteran Paul von Letow-Vorbek. In East Germany various communist heroes. Industrial like Krupp.
They have streets named after them but there is always an uncomfortable discussion around them.
But this is getting way OT.
 

Groningen

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Remenber that Erwin Rommel had/was forced to commit suicide (in Herrenberg) as he seemed to know something of the failed attempt to bomb Adolf Hitler and try to install a new government.
 
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