Royal Mail to cease using trains

[railfan99]

Will any of this rollingstock be preseved in operable condition?

 

[12LDA28C]

Will any of this rollingstock be preseved in operable condition?

Define 'operable condition'. Capable of being dragged on a preserved line by a loco is about as good as you'll get, but what's the point in that? That would just take up space on a heritage railway that could be used to accommodate passenger-carrying (and hence revenue-earning) stock.

 

[DBS92042]

Does anyone have any photos to share of the final runs over the last week or so?

My attempt of the final 1S24 on 20/09: https://flic.kr/p/2qhPUA7

 

[Stampy]

Apologies if this has been posted before - just spotted it on my YouTube Feed.....

 

[Adrian Barr]

My attempt of the final 1S24 on 20/09: https://flic.kr/p/2qhPUA7

Nice shot, glad you got out to see it!

In the interests of posterity, the final Class 325 mail runs on Friday 20th September were:

1S24 12:26 Willesden - Shieldmuir, units 325005 + 325009 (see pic by DBS92042 linked above ^)
1M27 12:35 Shieldmuir - Willesden, units 325001 + 325002 https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_woof/54009342454/
1M55 14:19 Shieldmuir - Daventry, units 325014 + 325011
1S55 20:44 Daventry - Shieldmuir, units 325011 + 325014 https://www.flickr.com/photos/60776612@N02/54009986417/

325009 worked south empty stock from Mossend to Crewe on Saturday (21st Sep) as 5M31 06:07 Mossend - Crewe Electric Depot

As mentioned by Freightmaster in post #224 in this thread, there is a 5M27 12:23 Mossend - Willesden PRDC planned for Tuesday (24th Sep), which I understand is intended to take 3 units for stabling at Willesden. I've no idea what the plans are for the 325 fleet after that...

As far as I can work out, this is the current positioning of the 325 fleet:
325001 Willesden PRDC
325002 Willesden PRDC
325003 Crewe IEMD
325004 Crewe IEMD
325005 Mossend Yard
325006 Crewe IEMD
325007 Mossend Yard (with bad wheel flats)
325008 Mossend or Crewe?
325009 Mossend Yard
325011 Mossend Yard
325012 Mossend or Crewe?
325013 Mossend or Crewe?
325014 Mossend Yard
325015 Willesden PRDC?
325016 Crewe IEMD

Units 01, 02 and 15 are at Willesden PRDC
Units 04, 08, 09 and 16 are at Crewe IEMD
Units 03, 05, 06, 07, 11, 12, 13, 14 are at Mossend

 

[GatwickDepress]

Define 'operable condition'. Capable of being dragged on a preserved line by a loco is about as good as you'll get, but what's the point in that? That would just take up space on a heritage railway that could be used to accommodate passenger-carrying (and hence revenue-earning) stock.

As you say, an entire unit (especially in operable condition) would be a waste of resources and space for a heritage railway.

I could plausibly see a driving trailer retained by a museum and used as part of a 'mail on rail' exhibit - the interior would be ideal for a display or a screen playing Night Mail, for example - but that's it really.

 

[zwk500]

As you say, an entire unit (especially in operable condition) would be a waste of resources and space for a heritage railway.

I could plausibly see a driving trailer retained by a museum and used as part of a 'mail on rail' exhibit - the interior would be ideal for a display or a screen playing Night Mail, for example - but that's it really.

a Cab Mockup has been on display for a long time at the NRM. Maybe Crewe heritage centre would have space for the driving car but I can't see that many other people being interested in it, as these units don't really fit in with many Preserved Railways' stories.

 

[Peter0124]

Anyone got any pictures of what the interior looked like? Now that they're being decomissioned it would be nice to see what the inside of a unit or carriage looked like, even when full of mail.

 

[Nym]

Beige painted walls and a few T12 tubes down the middle. Not much to them really.

 

[WesternLancer]

My attempt of the final 1S24 on 20/09: https://flic.kr/p/2qhPUA7

That’s very good image to see. Thanks

 

[The Planner]

Surely the most potent aspect of this transition to lorries is that Royal Mail has MORE control over lorries rather than the constrained paths on NR? I suspect this is also the reason none of the other parcel carriers have 'via rail' contracts.

A lot of work went in to getting them more paths in the Dec 22 timetable.

 

[Darandio]

a Cab Mockup has been on display for a long time at the NRM. Maybe Crewe heritage centre would have space for the driving car but I can't see that many other people being interested in it, as these units don't really fit in with many Preserved Railways' stories.

It hasn't been on display at the NRM for a very long time. Last I saw it was dumped in a shed on the Nene Valley.

 

[WesternLancer]

It hasn't been on display at the NRM for a very long time. Last I saw it was dumped in a shed on the Nene Valley.

That’s a shame to read

 

[DanNCL]

Would be incredibly short sighted if not even a single driving vehicle was preserved of what was the first (and last) postal EMU.

Maybe Crewe heritage centre would have space for the driving car but I can't see that many other people being interested in it, as these units don't really fit in with many Preserved Railways' stories.

Bo’ness would be another possibility, they’ve already got a Royal Mail exhibit with a Mark 1 TPO so a 325 vehicle would complement that.

Other than Crewe and Bo’ness though, or possibly the NRM at Shildon, struggling to see who might want one.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Beige painted walls and a few T12 tubes down the middle. Not much to them really.

With a few very good doodles / characatures of former RM staff dotted around a few of the interior walls !

 

[DBS92042]

Nice shot, glad you got out to see it!

In the interests of posterity, the final Class 325 mail runs on Friday 20th September were:

1S24 12:26 Willesden - Shieldmuir, units 325005 + 325009 (see pic by DBS92042 linked above ^)
1M27 12:35 Shieldmuir - Willesden, units 325001 + 325002 https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony_woof/54009342454/
1M55 14:19 Shieldmuir - Daventry, units 325014 + 325011
1S55 20:44 Daventry - Shieldmuir, units 325011 + 325014 https://www.flickr.com/photos/60776612@N02/54009986417/

325009 worked south empty stock from Mossend to Crewe on Saturday (21st Sep) as 5M31 06:07 Mossend - Crewe Electric Depot

As mentioned by Freightmaster in post #224 in this thread, there is a 5M27 12:23 Mossend - Willesden PRDC planned for Tuesday (24th Sep), which I understand is intended to take 3 units for stabling at Willesden. I've no idea what the plans are for the 325 fleet after that...


Units 01, 02 and 15 are at Willesden PRDC
Units 04, 08, 09 and 16 are at Crewe IEMD
Units 03, 05, 06, 07, 11, 12, 13, 14 are at Mossend

Thanks Adrian, got lucky with the weather as well given what the Met Office were predicting! Also thank you for the update location list

That’s very good image to see. Thanks

No worries, glad it ran a few minutes early to pass in the sun!

 

[WesternLancer]

Would be incredibly short sighted if not even a single driving vehicle was preserved of what was the first (and last) postal EMU.


Bo’ness would be another possibility, they’ve already got a Royal Mail exhibit with a Mark 1 TPO so a 325 vehicle would complement that.

Other than Crewe and Bo’ness though, or possibly the NRM at Shildon, struggling to see who might want one.

I wonder if the Royal Mail archive, now a floated off charity, have a role here. I am pretty sure they have a reserve store with vehicles it. Road vehicles that is eg post office vans for example. They are the Org that also runs mail rail I believe.

Between them and the NRM they ought to come up with something. Not sure if they will though. Preserving actual artefacts seems less fashionable in the museum sector these days…

 

[Peter0124]

Are Orion still planning to run services using their converted 319s?

 

[Western 52]

325 vehicles could make good workshops for preserved railways, or stores vans. Maybe a cheap way to get extra space.

 

[Adrian Barr]

Anyone got any pictures of what the interior looked like? Now that they're being decomissioned it would be nice to see what the inside of a unit or carriage looked like, even when full of mail.

I already linked this short documentary-style video (filmed in 2011) way back about 100 posts ago but it's worth reposting (no pun intended) for anyone that missed it:

The interior of the 325s is shown best in some brief clips after the 7 minute mark (and also briefly just after 5 minutes into the video) with scenes of them being loaded and unloaded

Video: Mail Train | Channel: darren cafferty

 

[65477]

325 vehicles could make good workshops for preserved railways, or stores vans. Maybe a cheap way to get extra space.
[/QUOTE

I know of couple of POT's used for this purpose but the issue is the sliding doors can jam. Are the 325 doors manual or electrical? Unless Royal Mail are giving them away I would not expect them to be cheap if you factor in transport costs.

 

[ExRes]

Are Orion still planning to run services using their converted 319s?

Never say never but I think that one died a death some time ago

 

[Ghostbus]

I'm also assuming that the company would object to them being used in any other revenue earning capacity in their authentic livery?

Especially since my first thought was as a RAVE TRAIN.

Don't laugh, this is apparently a real thing in the land of techno, the GDR.

Why clubbers are raving about Germany’s cross-country Techno Train

With DJs, bouncers and bars, the Nuremberg train offers a complete clubbing experience for hundreds of ‘clubbers’– and some lovely views of the Bavarian countryside …

www.theguardian.com

 

[Merle Haggard]

I'm also assuming that the company would object to them being used in any other revenue earning capacity in their authentic livery?

Especially since my first thought was as a RAVE TRAIN.

Don't laugh, this is apparently a real thing in the land of techno, the GDR.

Why clubbers are raving about Germany’s cross-country Techno Train

With DJs, bouncers and bars, the Nuremberg train offers a complete clubbing experience for hundreds of ‘clubbers’– and some lovely views of the Bavarian countryside …

www.theguardian.com

I only have a hazy recollection, but B.R. ran something similar in the 1970s - a Mk I set with a few of the cars having the seats removed. Lots of publicity about it at the time.

 

[Doomotron]

There's probably a good reason for this no to happen, but would Varamis Rail have any potential interest in swapping their 321s with 325s considering the operational advantages of the latter?

 

[43096]

The converted Class 321s retain the original GEC traction equipment - which itself was derived from Class 319 - so I can’t see how they are any different to the 325s.

Class 321s have Brush traction equipment, not GEC.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Saw empty stock arriving into PRDC platform 2 about 45 minutes ago

 

[Adrian Barr]

A minor update: 5M27 ran from Mossend to Willesden on Tue 24th Sep with units 325005 / 014 / 011, as noted by Skimpot flyer above.
5M27 is seen here near Acton Bridge: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jjm2009/54018969914/

This updates the list of unit locations as follows:

Units 01, 02, 05, 11, 14 and 15 are at Willesden PRDC
Units 04, 08, 09 and 16 are at Crewe IEMD
Units 03, 06, 07, 12 and 13 are at Mossend

There is a schedule for a 5M36 11:43 Crewe Electric Depot to Daventry tomorrow: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:F27321/2024-10-01/detailed

It's expected to be unit 325009 (which worked south from Mossend to Crewe as 5M31 on Sat 21st Sep) moving under its own power for stabling*; presumably in the mail platform at Daventry.
*movements between the exchange sidings at Daventry and the non-electrified Royal Mail terminal use the resident 08 pilot loco, as seen in these rather impressive drone shots:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/53955432152/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/35663521@N04/53965585686/

If this runs as expected, I think it will basically mean the serviceable units are stored on Royal Mail infrastructure at Willesden (plus one at Daventry), while the units left at Mossend and Crewe are the ones that require exams or repairs. This means that 5M36 could potentially be the final 325 move under its own power - I'm not aware of any further planned movements and it seems probable that wherever the units eventually end up after this (further storage or scrap) they would most likely be loco-hauled.

====================
Updated 01/10

5M36 was captured by the Staffs Transport channel passing Rugeley earlier today in the pouring rain, under the watchful eye of SJ (is it a cat? Is it a draft excluder? No, it's SJ).

Staffs Transport | POST SCRIPT : ROYAL MAIL 325009 LAST ECS TO DAVENTRY @RUGELEY 1.10.24

 

[chiltern trev]

Campaign for Better Transport have laucnhed a campaign "

Take action: save Royal Mail rail"​

And request "

Add your name to our Royal Mail postcard​

Link is https://bettertransport.org.uk/campaigns/freight-belongs-on-rail/ - follow the link if you wish to add your name.

Main text is

Our post has been transported by rail for almost 200 years. However, in July 2024, Royal Mail announced that it was scrapping the last of its fleet of mail trains.


This deeply concerning decision undermines the huge economic and environmental benefits of rail freight, and could result in many more lorries congesting our roads and polluting our air.


We are calling on the Government, Royal Mail and the rail freight industry to work together to find a solution, and you can help by adding your name to our giant postcard which we will deliver to Keith Williams, Chairman of Royal Mail and Great British Railways Transition Team.


Dear Keith,


Mail and rail belong together: they have been working in concert, connecting communities for almost 200 years.


It is therefore vital that Royal Mail and the Government work to increase the amount of mail delivered by train, not risk pushing more onto the roads.


After a year of record-breaking global temperatures, any reduction in rail freight would be all the more disastrous, increasing carbon emissions, air pollution and traffic on our roads.


With your roles at both Royal Mail and Great British Railways, you have a perfect opportunity to find a solution. And action is vital. Only nine per cent of freight is moved by rail in the UK, compared to an average of 17 per cent in Europe, nearly twice as good as us!


There is much that the Government could do to address the high costs of rail freight, so please reach out and work with them to find a solution which will send a bold message that freight belongs on rail, and that Royal Mail must lead by example.

 

[Gloster]

I'm also assuming that the company would object to them being used in any other revenue earning capacity in their authentic livery?

Especially since my first thought was as a RAVE TRAIN.

Don't laugh, this is apparently a real thing in the land of techno, the GDR.

Why clubbers are raving about Germany’s cross-country Techno Train

With DJs, bouncers and bars, the Nuremberg train offers a complete clubbing experience for hundreds of ‘clubbers’– and some lovely views of the Bavarian countryside …

www.theguardian.com

Are you thinking of the League Liner from around 1973? A set of coaches that included a ‘disco coach’ that was intended to keep football hooligans, sorry, supporters separate from the general public. There was a thread on it a couple of years ago.