RPI's ineffective. What can they do?

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I was queuing at Manchester Victoria this morning for the ticket check off the platform. As regular users of Victoria know, the ticket checks are split into two queues, one for entering the platforms and one for exiting.
Whilst the rest of us queued patiently, a young man just walked straight past the RPI manning the platform entry barrier ignoring all the instructions to join the correct queue and without showing a ticket just walked out of the station. The RPI did nothing.
This is most frustrating. Surely the job of RPI staff is to enforce ticket checks on all passengers, not just those who are compliant with queuing etiquette?
My guess is that the RPI didn't fancy the confrontation but in general, what power does an RPI have to apprehend a non compliant passenger?
 
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calc7

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That's highly annoying. Were these G4S staff?
 

ANorthernGuard

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I think they are Northern but before I am pilloried I am not sure.

They will be G4S staff with maybe the odd Northern Guard Q bashing, G$S cannot touch anyone or prevent them from entering/leaving and dome people know this, simples....
 

Jonfun

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They're not RPIs as such, they're simply ticket checkers employed by G4S. Whilst this one person may just have blatantly ignored them, I'd hazard a guess at what you didn't see was all the people walking through their barriers and just showing them something orange and being let through... :roll:
 

chuckles1066

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They could try employing them at Filton Abbeywood.

There was massive fare-dodging going on in November 2010 when I first started using the railways and my return (for just a week) in June 2012 showed me that nothing had changed......in fact, it seemed to have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous as I witnessed some guy take a "shortcut" across the tracks to avoid the uniforms on the bridge.
 

Monty

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What would you like them to do? Rugby tackle then to the floor and force them to rejoin the queue? It also makes no difference if they were Railway employees or G4S, they do not have the power nor the training to restrain anyone physically. Besides if they did have the power people would only complain more about how they go around acting like the 'Gestapo'..
 

calc7

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I imagine the risk assessment and perhaps the contract between the two companies will specifically exclude confrontation anyway!
 

Solent&Wessex

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I think they are Northern but before I am pilloried I am not sure.


They are G4S Staff in Northern uniforms, and are spectacularly useless.

I was on a train into MCV once. A lad boarded the train at an unstaffed station, sat at the front and the guard never came round. Got to the barrier, and I was 2 people behind said lad. G4S asked to see his ticket. Lad just says "I left it on the train". G4S bloke just says "oh, ok then" and let him out. I don't know why they bother!
 

MidnightFlyer

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If he was fare evading, he'd have got through showing his blood donor / bank / M&S Loyalty / golf club membership card anyway!

I have to be honest here, I'd rather Manchester Victoria be ticket gated, G4S there in my experience are pretty poor. I recall once going to the McDonalds above the station in the MEN Arena and leaving via the station entrance to there. I was asked for a valid rail ticket by a member of staff loitering outside, despite there being no indication of me actually being on a train there that day whatsoever!
 

Solent&Wessex

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If he was fare evading, he'd have got through showing his blood donor card anyway!

I have to be honest here, I'd rather Manchester Victoria be ticket gated, G4S there in my experience are pretty poor. I recall once going to the McDonalds above the station in the MEN Arena and leaving via the station entrance to there. I was asked for a valid rail ticket by a member of staff loitering outside, despite there being no indication of me actually being on a train there that day whatsoever!

I notice they have recently taken to doing ticket checks on the overbridge too, where the steps come down from MEN and the entrance from the car park.

 
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Is it implausible that he's a colleague/other member of staff that they know by sight?

Well by the way they were hollering after him I doubt it.
It seems then that if you don't fancy paying for a ticket to MCV then unless the BTP are in attendance then you can walk through scot free! RPI's are ineffective unless you are compliant?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They are G4S Staff in Northern uniforms, and are spectacularly useless.

I was on a train into MCV once. A lad boarded the train at an unstaffed station, sat at the front and the guard never came round. Got to the barrier, and I was 2 people behind said lad. G4S asked to see his ticket. Lad just says "I left it on the train". G4S bloke just says "oh, ok then" and let him out. I don't know why they bother!

Apologies to any Northern staff, but if G4S are in Northern uniform then there is a chance of confusion.
 

HSTEd

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Having a physical fixed gateline with ticket barriers would stop people just walking out, but those are considered to be unpopular.
 

route:oxford

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Whilst the rest of us queued patiently, a young man just walked straight past the RPI manning the platform entry barrier ignoring all the instructions to join the correct queue and without showing a ticket just walked out of the station.

Well, you know what to do tomorrow morning. Just walk straight past the queue and egress via the ingress.

You have a ticket, you're prepared to show it on demand, you're doing nothing wrong but breaking the unwritten code of etiquette.

Those 3 minutes in a queue each morning add up to 15 minutes a week or almost 12 hours of your life every year that you'll never get back.
 

Greenback

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Well, you know what to do tomorrow morning. Just walk straight past the queue and egress via the ingress.

You have a ticket, you're prepared to show it on demand, you're doing nothing wrong but breaking the unwritten code of etiquette.

Those 3 minutes in a queue each morning add up to 15 minutes a week or almost 12 hours of your life every year that you'll never get back.

Indeed. There is absolutely no evidence as far as I can see that the person who walked out did not have a ticket.
 

WestCoast

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I think Northern's G4S team have become stricter than they used to be, at least in my experience. I say this for a few reasons:

-they are now securing the platforms at Manchester Piccadilly by the doors to the concourse.
-the last two times I have exited Piccadilly, the G4S inspector gave my ticket more than cursory glance and was retaining tickets where appropriate.
-the G4S inspector on the bridge at Preston asked to see my railcard last week.
 

Mojo

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Having a physical fixed gateline with ticket barriers would stop people just walking out...
I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is not the case. Those who don't have a ticket and don't want to pay at automatic gates just double gate, push through the barriers or jump over.
 

Urban Gateline

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I'm sorry to disappoint, but that is not the case. Those who don't have a ticket and don't want to pay at automatic gates just double gate, push through the barriers or jump over.

I can vouch that this is the case! And RPI's won't go chasing after people either! One of the first things in the trainining for the role is conflict avoidance at South West Trains!

The hardcore fare evaders will always escape unless there is BTP presence (or security staff) to prevent the person from leaving the station!
 

calc7

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...And even then the cost-benefit in most cases will not win.
 

district

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Ticket barriers are good for the opportunist fare evaders though - those who will pay if forced to before travel but are willing to travel without payment if, say, barriers are open at origin and there are no barriers at destination.

In my opinion, the only real way to tackle serious 'organised' fare evasion would be intelligence operations (where evidence is collated for a considerable time before approaching the suspect) with the TOC and the BTP.
 

calc7

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Ticket barriers are good for the opportunist fare evaders though - those who will pay if forced to before travel but are willing to travel without payment if, say, barriers are open at origin and there are no barriers at destination.

In my opinion, the only real way to tackle serious 'organised' fare evasion would be intelligence operations (where evidence is collated for a considerable time before approaching the suspect) with the TOC and the BTP.

Regarding this, is anybody privy to the capital cost of barrier installation and any ongoing operating costs?
 

Greenback

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And no evidence he did. :-x

Why should there be? I've travelled lots of times and not needed to show a ticket anywhere.

The point is that no one can assume that the person was a fare evader simply because they walked out without showing a ticket to anyone in authority.
 

class303

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Why should there be? I've travelled lots of times and not needed to show a ticket anywhere.

The point is that no one can assume that the person was a fare evader simply because they walked out without showing a ticket to anyone in authority.

wrong. i can, and do, assume he didn't have a ticket.
 

cuccir

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Whether or not he had a ticket, he was still in breach of railway bylaws presumably?
 
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