RPIs on the Underground

[AlterEgo]

Thing is you cannot keep doing it or your card would be blacklisted.

That's alright, you can always report your card lost and get a new one.

Different number, different card. It's a terrible hole in the system. I have only encountered Tube RPIs once on my daily commute within Z1 in the last year! TfL need to rectify this.

 

[Mojo]

That's an astonishing hole in the system.

Different number, different card. It's a terrible hole in the system. I have only encountered Tube RPIs once on my daily commute within Z1 in the last year! TfL need to rectify this.

You probably have came across them much more than this; but most of their work is monitoring gatelines in plain clothes. This is much more effective as people (literally) walk their way in to a RoRA prosecution, and whether they are on a CPC or not doesn't really matter.

If anything, it is not really a concern for the Underground because of this, but I should imagine is a bigger issue on buses, Trams, DLR and National Rail services.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Tailgating is clearly quite a problem in many locations. One of the recent times I was tailgated (I would say this happens about 3-4% of the trips I make), I did query what action they took with the LUL staff on duty. I got the "we'll catch them because there is CCTV everywhere, so don't worry about it sir" response. But it seemed a rehearsed answer so I wasn't convinced. The best approach, piloted by Sir Bernard Ingham, is to stop just beyond the final light beam at the gate so that the person behind instinctively stops as well and then has the barrier slam into them! Slows down the throughput, though!

 

[PeterC]

I was caught once, in early Oyster days by somebody pushing in front as I touched my card on the reader. (Luckily a travelcard not PAYG). Since then I always step between the barriers before touching in or out rather than reaching forward. If it feels that somebody is too close I will always pause for a second.

 

[island]

A variation on that is someone putting in a ticket or using a card they know to be invalid, stepping forward, and then going through on the ticket of the person behind, who then can't get through.

 

[Antman]

A variation on that is someone putting in a ticket or using a card they know to be invalid, stepping forward, and then going through on the ticket of the person behind, who then can't get through.

I've seen that happen a few times whether intentionally or otherwise.
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Tailgating is clearly quite a problem in many locations. One of the recent times I was tailgated (I would say this happens about 3-4% of the trips I make), I did query what action they took with the LUL staff on duty. I got the "we'll catch them because there is CCTV everywhere, so don't worry about it sir" response. But it seemed a rehearsed answer so I wasn't convinced. The best approach, piloted by Sir Bernard Ingham, is to stop just beyond the final light beam at the gate so that the person behind instinctively stops as well and then has the barrier slam into them! Slows down the throughput, though!

Is somebody really going to trawl through hours of CCTV and then try and identify them? I think you're right, rehearsed answer!

 

[Clip]

I've seen that happen a few times whether intentionally or otherwise.
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Is somebody really going to trawl through hours of CCTV and then try and identify them? I think you're right, rehearsed answer!

Unless they were RPIs and had the power to go and apprehend the person who done this what would you expect them to say?

'Oh sorry , they get to travel for free today, dont worry about it?'

 

[Antman]

Unless they were RPIs and had the power to go and apprehend the person who done this what would you expect them to say?

'Oh sorry , they get to travel for free today, dont worry about it?'

We were talking about reviewing such incidents on CCTV, it isn't going to happen is it?

 

[AlterEgo]

We were talking about reviewing such incidents on CCTV, it isn't going to happen is it?

I didn't interpret what the staff member said as "we will look at the CCTV of the gates and catch him today", more:

"Tailgaters do it all the time. We have CCTV which is often monitored and the law of averages means he will be caught sooner or later."

I'm not sure what you expected the staff member to say to be honest.

 

[Antman]

I didn't interpret what the staff member said as "we will look at the CCTV of the gates and catch him today", more:

"Tailgaters do it all the time. We have CCTV which is often monitored and the law of averages means he will be caught sooner or later."

I'm not sure what you expected the staff member to say to be honest.

Well if somebody is actually watching the CCTV at the time and they are in radio contact with somebody who can apprehend an offender that is a different scenario. Personality I don't suppose anybody is watching the CCTV most of the time but there we are.

 

[Mojo]

We were talking about reviewing such incidents on CCTV, it isn't going to happen is it?

Yes it does happen. I'm aware of a number of cases where repeat offenders are identified by station staff and information forwarded to the Revenue Control department, who send someone to the station to collar the person for a potential RoRA offence for the occasion they are caught, and then byelaw offences for the other occasions where they jump over or double through. Some of these cases were shown on a recent TV series.

 

[Clip]

Yes it does happen. I'm aware of a number of cases where repeat offenders are identified by station staff and information forwarded to the Revenue Control department, who send someone to the station to collar the person for a potential RoRA offence for the occasion they are caught, and then byelaw offences for the other occasions where they jump over or double through. Some of these cases were shown on a recent TV series.

Yup I remember that. Create a log of date and time. Grab some cctv footage, build a picture of their travelling habits and bingo. Collared.

 

[matt_world2004]

Ive been inspected on a picadilly train, once by an RPI.

 

[Deerfold]

Ive been inspected on a picadilly train, once by an RPI.

I spent 14 years working in London along with various visits before and after. I was inspected on a train once - a Central line train around 2003.

I was checked many times entering stations - most frequently Kings Cross, and I came across the Green Park check fairly often.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Have had a couple of plain clothed RPI checks on the Bank Branch as recently as last year. Very effective too they were.

Occasioanally spot what I presume is a plain clothed team "observing" the barriers at Kings Cross - where I presume they block the gates for child fares etc in the peak and await developments.....

 

[MikeWh]

where I presume they block the gates for child fares etc in the peak and await developments.....

I doubt they block child fares because that causes issues for zip Oyster cards, which many children will be using.

 

[Daniel]

I doubt they block child fares because that causes issues for zip Oyster cards, which many children will be using.

I believe that LU RCI's do not 'block' tickets when observing a dateline but turn on the 'monitor' function, so a light is illuminated on the exit or entry side of the ticket gate to advise the RCI that someone with a monitored type of ticket has entered.
If you have a free travel permit you'll find you're inspected much more often than someone who's using a standard ticket - I speak from experience!

 

[Antman]

Ive been inspected on a picadilly train, once by an RPI.

Once more than me! I've never seen any revenue on LU, quite often see them on LO though.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I believe that LU RCI's do not 'block' tickets when observing a dateline but turn on the 'monitor' function, so a light is illuminated on the exit or entry side of the ticket gate to advise the RCI that someone with a monitored type of ticket has entered.
If you have a free travel permit you'll find you're inspected much more often than someone who's using a standard ticket - I speak from experience!

Of course - technology has moved on - yes , pulled up a few times for a look at my priv Oyster card.

 

[gray1404]

Are people with railcards loaded to their Oyster cards more likely to be inspected too?

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

I didn't interpret what the staff member said as "we will look at the CCTV of the gates and catch him today", more:

"Tailgaters do it all the time. We have CCTV which is often monitored and the law of averages means he will be caught sooner or later."

I'm not sure what you expected the staff member to say to be honest.

Yes, I expect that's what was meant but I was wondering if LUL actually did ever do anything about this problem. As I said, I would estimate that I am tailgated maybe one in 25 trips I make on the tube which seems too high for what is supposed to be an all-gated network (ie one has to jump in both ends of the journey). So I'm slightly encouraged about the CCTV occasionally being monitored, but only slightly. If there were much more obvious on-train and on-station revenue activities would that not help? I really cannot remember the last time I was inspected in this way!

 

[jon0844]

Are people with railcards loaded to their Oyster cards more likely to be inspected too?

I am sure I've been checked and made the gate go yellow when using my Oyster with railcard discount. Certainly when I has an Oyster season I got checked a few times at King's Cross.. Always to show my photo ID.

 

[island]

Are people with railcards loaded to their Oyster cards more likely to be inspected too?

I have a Railcard on my Oyster card and have never been inspected on LU nor asked to produce the card when inspected on other modes.

 

[Tom B]

I perhaps get tickets checked twice per year onboard on the tube and probably twice per year on the buses - and I use the tube every day to and from work and usually on my rest days, too.

I have held a young person's railcard for the duration and have never been asked to produce it by an Inspector; although I have always carried it for fear of being asked to do so!