Rugby station to be gated for new franchise

[rugbymidland]

I have just read that, as part of their Franchise extension, Virgin plan a couple of improvements at Rugby. (Free wi-fi and provision of ticket gates )

I'm not sure that enthusiasts will call ticket gates an improvement.

details here:

http://www.rugbyadvertiser.co.uk/ne...y-station-following-35m-virgin-deal-1-6132545

Changes to Rugby station following £35m Virgin deal

Virgin has retained the right to run trains on the West Coast main line through Rugby – and has promised changes to the town’s station.

The £35 million contract will run for two years and nine months, with Rugby station being equipped with ticket gates and free wireless internet access.

 

[xydancer]

It will be interesting to see how they make this work.

The entrances to the old tunnel (subway) would work for platforms 2-6, but would then mean customers coming from the new station multi-storey car park needing to buy a ticket would have to use the roadway tunnel (dangerous in my opinion and certainly unpleasant) to get to the booking office.

There's also the potential issue that the subway (and tunnel previously) has been freely used by the (non-travelling) public for well in excess of the 20 years for it to effectively acquire public right of way status (I think the legal term is 'easement'). It would need someone to claim that for it to be tested, but...

For Platform 1 (separate staircase/lift), the gates would have to go right at the bottom of the stairs. Is there a safety issue there? Not sure. It's certainly not ideal as it would mean queueing down the stairs to get through on the way out. To include the lift, VT would also need to grab part of the foyer, which is already not huge.

I wait to see what happens with interest!

 

[rugbymidland]

Platform 1 gates would no doubt go at platform level where the existing doors between waiting room and platform are. Platforms 2,3 and 4 could be served by gates at top of the 2 existing ramps. Platform 5 and 6 tricky because of lift exit from platforms as well as stairs

 

[Mr Spock]

Platform 1 gates would no doubt go at platform level where the existing doors between waiting room and platform are. Platforms 2,3 and 4 could be served by gates at top of the 2 existing ramps. Platform 5 and 6 tricky because of lift exit from platforms as well as stairs

There is also a lift to platforms 2-4 which would complicate your proposal.

 

[yorkie]

..., but would then mean customers coming from the new station multi-storey car park needing to buy a ticket would have to use the roadway tunnel (dangerous in my opinion and certainly unpleasant) to get to the booking office...

The DfT would still call this an "improvement"

...for it to effectively acquire public right of way status ....

They would probably dispute that, and the loss of such a route would still be called an "improvement"

Not sure. It's certainly not ideal as it would mean queueing down the stairs to get through on the way out

Queuing you say? There's no doubt the DfT would call this an "improvement" as they do enjoy making people queue.

Of course the people who make such decisions don't travel by train so their idea of "improvements" are not the same as those who do!

 

[DarloRich]

Surely they will just gate off the tunnel and declare it not a public right of way. Will it not just be the same as Derby?

 

[FQ]

Darn,
Rugby is a station I visit a lot for spotting, because I live in the area and because it isn't gated. I guess Virgin would also need the staff but I am definitely against it as I am sure most enthusiasts would be. By doing it to Rugby I would like to see the DFT try and put gates at York and Sheffield because with Sheffield you have the link for people to the Sheffield Supertram and at York you have the access to the NRM. My point being why have barriers at Rugby anyway? Because as Xydancer said for people parking at the multi story car park you have to go through the road tunnel to get to the ticket office, meaning there is more chance of you missing your train (because it is much quicker going via the station). It also means people who live in Rugby can't go through the station instead of the tunnel.
It will be a shame if it happens.

 

[DarloRich]

Darn,
Rugby is a station I visit a lot for spotting, because I live in the area and because it isn't gated. I guess Virgin would also need the staff but I am definitely against it as I am sure most enthusiasts would be. By doing it to Rugby I would like to see the DFT try and put gates at York and Sheffield because with Sheffield you have the link for people to the Sheffield Supertram and at York you have the access to the NRM. My point being why have barriers at Rugby anyway? Because as Xydancer said for people parking at the multi story car park you have to go through the road tunnel to get to the ticket office, meaning there is more chance of you missing your train (because it is much quicker going via the station). It also means people who live in Rugby can't go through the station instead of the tunnel.
It will be a shame if it happens.

It isn’t a public right of way so access isn’t a right. Without a public right of way you are simply accessing private property and that access can be controlled as the owner sees fit. As for the car park people needing tickets surely they will just put machines in front of the gates?

 

[GatwickDepress]

No doubt the gates will be left open most of the time, which is what East Midlands Trains seem to do at their stations.

As for spotters, simply asking nicely at the gateline usually works. Politeness goes a long way on the railway*.

*Unless it involves Southeastern.

 

[FQ]

No doubt the gates will be left open most of the time, which is what East Midlands Trains seem to do at their stations.

As for spotters, simply asking nicely at the gateline usually works. Politeness goes a long way on the railway*.

*Unless it involves Southeastern.

Yep, Chiltern Railways and Virgin staff are very nice, but what happens with SouthEastern?

 

[222001]

No doubt the gates will be left open most of the time, which is what East Midlands Trains seem to do at their stations.

As for spotters, simply asking nicely at the gateline usually works. Politeness goes a long way on the railway*.

*Unless it involves Southeastern.

It does indeed go a long way. I've been let through the barriers at St Pancras before by simply politely asking.

 

[FQ]

It does indeed go a long way. I've been let through the barriers at St Pancras before by simply politely asking.

Yep, I have just asked at Pancras as well and they let me through. Different story at London Marylebone for my friend though... He asked to go through to get the unit numbers and the 67 that was sat in there and the person at the barriers said that he had to sign a form to go through. He then said that it didn't matter and walked off.

 

[Redonian]

The tunnel is not and never has been a public right of way. There used to be signs saying this. I am not sure if they are still there. In any event the tunnel is closed 02:00 -05:00 every day and at Christmas thus showing there is no right of way.
Closing the tunnel is not an option as it the only sensible route to the car park and parts of the town and the path at the end of the tunnel has just had a lot of work done on it.
Barriers for Platform 1 would be easy but for 2,3 and 4 it will need barriers at the top of the ramps and presumably at the lift entrance in the tunnel. 5 and 6 are even more problematical, again presumably at the lift entrance in the tunnel but there is precious little room at the top or bottom of the stairs.
When Rugby was rebuilt it was on the basis there would be no barriers and I really can't see the need for them now.

 

[Mojo]

No doubt like most other locations the gates will be left unmanned between about 7 and half 6, and for the best part of the weekend too

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I suppose you could argue the point that does the entire station, if done on a platform set by platform set basis, need to be barriered?

The only regular service during the day off the old island is the LM Crewe service. At peaks there's literally two additional VT services, a couple of services using the bay p3, and about a dozen VT services southbound off p4 at the extremities of the day. Obviously platform changes can happen but with the hassle that would be needed to gate the lift separately (or separate it via a pathway to the gates atop the ramp) I do wonder what the cut-off point would be where it becomes uneconomical. Further, there's also the customer info point (that must be deserted nowadays) up there too, so either you let people through for that (where they could then board the train) or move it elsewhere...

 

[xydancer]

Correct, the tunnel has never been an 'official' public right of way. But that is not the point. Routes over private land where the landowner has knowingly allowed (through action or inaction) unhindered access for in excess of 20 years can become de facto 'rights of way'.

There is plenty of case law where landowners have attempted to close off long-used routes, but where a court challenge has then required them to continue to allow access unhindered.

Of course, every case is different (and the closure overnight since the remodelling is a factor in Virgin's favour), but such a challenge at Rugby would be perfectly possible.

I think I'm also correct in saying that automatic barriers have to be manned (someone will no doubt correct me if that's incorrect). My understanding is that it could be done via intercom/CCTV to the booking office or customer services rather than by a member of staff actually standing there, but it's something else that needs to be considered.

As someone said above, I suspect they will finish up being installed, then left open pretty much permanently outside the peaks.

Please don't think I'm anti-barrier, by the way. Years ago Rugby-Coventry trains were notorious for the number of non-payers. They were so packed the guard couldn't get through even if he/she wanted to. The number that got caught when a temporary barrier appeared at one or other station was amazing. Given the almost total lack of ticket checks on the route today, it could still be the same. Just a shame someone didn't think about it when the station was redesigned (but that would have needed joined up thinking).