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Rugby Union

Xenophon PCDGS

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Italy had a really good chance to defeat England today, but the difference in the goalkicking ability really told against them, particularly with the two penalties awarded to them so very near the end of the match when there was only a four-point deficit to make up. The first of these kicks was bad...as for the second one..:roll::roll:
 
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Oswyntail

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In both their games, Italy have looked a great improvement on last season. It is not beyond possibility that they could win their next three games - with a kicker.
 

Greenback

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I'm not at all impressed with the Italian outside half. He doesn't appear to be international class. The loss of Castrogiovanni also hurt them, I think.

Once again, I don't think England played well. Being Welsh, I say keep Dowson and Youngs in the side for the next match, otherwise I would advocate dropping the pair of them!
 

Oswyntail

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Today's match was odd - frenetic but generally unstructured. Scotland paid the price for a couple of silly mistakes. But neither team seemed able, or clever enough, to cope with well structured defence. Way too much kicking. Some good new players on both sides.
 

Greenback

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Today's match was odd - frenetic but generally unstructured. Scotland paid the price for a couple of silly mistakes. But neither team seemed able, or clever enough, to cope with well structured defence. Way too much kicking. Some good new players on both sides.

I thought that Wales kicked the ball away too much. I didn;t think Scotland were so bad in that respect. The Welsh clearly didn't want to kick to touch, due to the abysmal line out, which, in my view, allowed the Scots to attack more with ball in hand than might usually be the case.

There's a history of open, attacking and exciting matches between the two sides. I remember some very good games in the 70's and 80's, and it's good to see a match played at pace. I believe that the total ball in play time was also quite high for an international match.
 

Michael.Y

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I thought that Wales kicked the ball away too much. I didn;t think Scotland were so bad in that respect. The Welsh clearly didn't want to kick to touch, due to the abysmal line out, which, in my view, allowed the Scots to attack more with ball in hand than might usually be the case.

There's a history of open, attacking and exciting matches between the two sides. I remember some very good games in the 70's and 80's, and it's good to see a match played at pace. I believe that the total ball in play time was also quite high for an international match.

Line-out improved when Ken Owens replaced Huw Bennett... hopefully Owens will start against England.
 

Greenback

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Line-out improved when Ken Owens replaced Huw Bennett... hopefully Owens will start against England.

I would like to see Owens given a start, but there's more to the line out than the thrower. One of my mates has said that the jumpers were rooted tot he spot in one line out. He reckons either there was confusion over the call or someone was being held down!!!
 

Greenback

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I'm glad they have been able to make a decision...I heard that there was a lot of argument about it!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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All the talk before the match was that Wales, on the crest of a wave, would "steamroller" the young and inexperienced England team, but matters were only finally resolved in the last 10 minutes with the Welsh try and even at the death, it was England who were at the Welsh line, but the attempt at a try was disallowed. Wales have a very good reader of the game in Leigh Halfpenny. Owen Farrell at just 20 years of age seems a good prospect for the future for England, as a reliable place kicker is essential in International Rugby.
 

Oswyntail

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Not the most exciting match today, though Scotland managed a couple of tries!!! Too many loose mistakes, and France seemed content just to win rather than play what they can. The crowd seemed asleep, and even Andy Robinson was looking bored at the end. Will he go? I hope not, because he has improved Scottish play greatly - but they still have too many silly mistakes.
 

Butts

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Not the most exciting match today, though Scotland managed a couple of tries!!! Too many loose mistakes, and France seemed content just to win rather than play what they can. The crowd seemed asleep, and even Andy Robinson was looking bored at the end. Will he go? I hope not, because he has improved Scottish play greatly - but they still have too many silly mistakes.

Unforunately you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear :p

Time for Andy to move on - he has done his best but for his own motivation he needs a fresh challenge.
 

Greenback

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All the talk before the match was that Wales, on the crest of a wave, would "steamroller" the young and inexperienced England team, but matters were only finally resolved in the last 10 minutes with the Welsh try and even at the death, it was England who were at the Welsh line, but the attempt at a try was disallowed. Wales have a very good reader of the game in Leigh Halfpenny. Owen Farrell at just 20 years of age seems a good prospect for the future for England, as a reliable place kicker is essential in International Rugby.

Owen Farrell played well. He seems to offer different options to the other fly half's. It will be interesting to see how he develops, but he has had a very good tournament so far.

Unforunately you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear :p

Time for Andy to move on - he has done his best but for his own motivation he needs a fresh challenge.

Scotland also have some good young talent coming through. As they develop and gain experience Scotland will become a much better side, and I for one think they are playing better than they were a year ago.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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It is remarkable how the fixture list for the 2012 series has turned out, as Saturday, 17th March 2012, will see Wales at home to France. This match on current results for both teams, looks to be very much a decider for this series.
 

Ivo

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It is remarkable how the fixture list for the 2012 series has turned out, as Saturday, 17th March 2012, will see Wales at home to France. This match on current results for both teams, looks to be very much a decider for this series.

Given the date it might be a good thing the decider doesn't involve the Irish...
 

Oswyntail

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...This match on current results for both teams, looks to be very much a decider for this series.
I would not get ahead of ourselves. Results, perhaps, but on overall play I would say that either team could yet be beaten (yes, even Wales, who have not been as special as the press would make out). The whole competition seems to be suffering from post-RWC sluggishness.
 

Greenback

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I would not get ahead of ourselves. Results, perhaps, but on overall play I would say that either team could yet be beaten (yes, even Wales, who have not been as special as the press would make out). The whole competition seems to be suffering from post-RWC sluggishness.

There's a long way to go yet! Ireland are capabble of turning France over in Paris, though they will have to play extrmeely well to do it. But, as they say, stranger things have happened!

I wouldn't put Italy beating Wales beyond the realms of possibility either.

The RWC is now an established part of the rugby calendar, and as such teams do tend to build towards the torunament. There is usally a clutch of retirements after the event, (not forgetting sackings of caoches!) both in meaning that sides are starting a new cycle of rebuilding leading up to the next World Cup. It's not really surprising that some sides are in transition.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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After the early tournament matches, the form of the England team was called into question in some quarters, but today's match in Paris seemed to show hope for the future, as they scored three tries in the 24-22 win over France, despite France only being 14-9 down at half-time, which was the first Six Nations defeat in Paris that France had suffered since 2008.
 
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Greenback

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After the early tournament matches, the form of the England team was called into question in some quarters, but today's match in Paris seemed to show hope for the future, as they scored three tries in the 24-22 win over France, despite being 14-9 down at half-time, which was the first Six Nations defeat in Paris that France had suffered since 2008.

It seems as if England did need a good old clear out after th World Cup. This is a relatively young and inexperienced England side which will only get better. I still think that there are areas of the game where they need to work hard, but ENgland fans should be feeling mroe optimistic now than they were before the tournament.
 

Eagle

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After the early tournament matches, the form of the England team was called into question in some quarters, but today's match in Paris seemed to show hope for the future, as they scored three tries in the 24-22 win over France, despite being 14-9 down at half-time, which was the first Six Nations defeat in Paris that France had suffered since 2008.

England were in fact 14–9 up against France at half-time (they led the entire match).

But still, this is the first time ever that England have won three away matches in a single series.

Wales are now 1/33 favourites for the series.
 

Ivo

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But still, this is the first time ever that England have won three away matches in a single series.

That's an interesting stat if ever there was one :shock:

Wales deserve to win this year, but after that performance in Paris England could well get 2nd - St Patrick's Day will be very intriguing. Plenty of promise heading forward - if only the World Cup was in 2012 and not 2011 (but if that was the case the "old" might still be around) :lol:
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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England were in fact 14–9 up against France at half-time (they led the entire match).

Apologies for this....I have now amended my posting to read what I really had in mind to say, which makes far more sense.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Saturday, 17th Match 2012.

Italy 13.....Scotland 6

Was anyone really surprised by this result ?
 
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Greenback

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Yes! I had tipped Scotland to win, but this was based on them not repeating the way they played in the second half against Ireland last week. Instead, though, they were even worse.
 

Oswyntail

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Wales have dominated every match - err, not! :P Lucky wins against England and Ireland, close against France, and unconvincing against the other two. It has been a poor tournament all round - typical post RWC.
(That said, I have been impressed with all teams' defensive organisation)
 

Greenback

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Wales have dominated every match - err, not! :P Lucky wins against England and Ireland, close against France, and unconvincing against the other two. It has been a poor tournament all round - typical post RWC.
(That said, I have been impressed with all teams' defensive organisation)

And of course, exactly the same thing would apply if England had one won?! :D

The fact is that Wales were the better side against Ireland, against Scotland, Italy and France. Yes, England played really well at Twickenham but the Welsh team of old would not have won tight games like they did that one.

I do think you are right about defences being dominant. Many referees are also too quick to penalise the attacking side for not releasing, which not only assists the defenders, but does little to encourage attacking, running rugby.

I don't think it's been a poor tournament though, I think it may be seen as such by some because it follows on from the global spectacle of the World Cup. I think the majority of the games have been exciting and close, and I even enjoyed England beating Ireland convincingly yesterday!

Personally, I prefer the edge of the seat stuff to one sided contests where a side gets beaten by 40 points!
 

Oswyntail

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And of course, exactly the same thing would apply if England had one won?! :D
.....
Personally, I prefer the edge of the seat stuff to one sided contests where a side gets beaten by 40 points!
I agree about the latter point, but I think the tournament would have had a fairer result if the Wales/England match had been drawn. Wales were not so far ahead that they deserved to be equated with the sides of the 70's, and England so far exceeded expectations they deserved something. Both teams can look confidently to the future.
France were very odd, with bizarre selection decisions and on-field chaos at times. But very watchable. Who knows at what stage they are - ever?
Ireland I felt, lacked their usual motivation and made silly mistakes. Their big plus is that they didn't miss what's-his-name in the play at all, so should be able to move on without a superstar round their necks.
Italy were a little disappointing for me, though only a little. The best aspect were the crowds, which shows that the game is growing as a public spectacle. I suspect there will be a few retirements soon, and it remains to be seen how they cope with that. Decent half-backs would help
Scotland were technically very improved, but they do need to improve their mental approach. You can see in their faces during the anthems that they do not really fancy the next 80 minutes, and, when things go wrong they seem to give up too easily. What they need is a good Captain.
 

Greenback

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I agree about the latter point, but I think the tournament would have had a fairer result if the Wales/England match had been drawn. Wales were not so far ahead that they deserved to be equated with the sides of the 70's, and England so far exceeded expectations they deserved something. Both teams can look confidently to the future.
France were very odd, with bizarre selection decisions and on-field chaos at times. But very watchable. Who knows at what stage they are - ever?
Ireland I felt, lacked their usual motivation and made silly mistakes. Their big plus is that they didn't miss what's-his-name in the play at all, so should be able to move on without a superstar round their necks.
Italy were a little disappointing for me, though only a little. The best aspect were the crowds, which shows that the game is growing as a public spectacle. I suspect there will be a few retirements soon, and it remains to be seen how they cope with that. Decent half-backs would help
Scotland were technically very improved, but they do need to improve their mental approach. You can see in their faces during the anthems that they do not really fancy the next 80 minutes, and, when things go wrong they seem to give up too easily. What they need is a good Captain.

I don't think a draw would have been a fairer result at Twickers. I wouldn't have argued if it had been a draw, but I do think that Wales earned the win. I never thought it would be as easy as some, but I was a little surprised at how well England executed their game plan and it was very effective. I know I am biased, but when watching the game I thought Wales were slightly the better side!

Anyway, here is my analysis of all the nations involved

Scotland remind of Wales 10 years ago. Some good young players, trying to play good running rugby, but mentally flawed. They will get there if they carry on with what they are doing, but it may take some time.

Ireland have been in decline since their Grand Slam. Some of their key players are simply past their best, and the players coming through are not as good.

Italy desperately, desperately need good half backs. They have a good pack, but their backs are mediocre at best, and until they find a goal kicker they will find it hard to win games.

France, what a mess. I don't think they have recovered from the dressing room split in the World Cup, and I don't think that their policy of bringing a lot of expensive foreigners in to their domestic clubs has had a very good effect on the national side. But they will always do well in the season following a Lions tour, as the 4 home nations will be udnerstrength following fatigue and injuries!

England have come on leaps and bounds. o me, it shows that there should have been an influx of new blood before now. I was against the appointment of Johnson, with no coaching experience at all, and I think he was found out in the end. He was too close to soem fo the players, and that showed in the World Cup. Lancaster has been professional, and objective, and has found a very promising outside half.

Wales are a young side overall, and we all hope that they will continue to improve. There are some exciting players coming through who have not yet got into the national squad, so there is a lot of hope and confidence for the future down here. The biggest improvement in the past year has been mentally. We can now grind out results, and win tight matches like England and Ireland, which would probably have been lost last year. It's disappointing that some of the flair seems to have gone with Shane's retirement, but the modern game is all about physicality and big hits, much to my regret. It's not the same game that I played in the 1970's!
 

richw

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Must say the future looks bright for england and wales, both very young sides, and both improving every game.
I'm in hope that Stuart Lancaster has successfully passed his trial for getting the job full time he has blooded 9 debuts through the tournament, yet still finished 2nd place. Owen farrell looks good for the future, and only missed 3-4 place kicks all tournament, which for an 18 year old making his debut on the big stage is incredible.
 

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