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Rugby Union

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JamesT

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That was a delightfully bonkers game at Twickenham yesterday. Italy certainly managed to confuse the England team with their 'ruck-free' rugby. I'm not sure I'd want every game to turn into that, but it was great fun.

In the women's game, Scotland managed to win a Six Nations match for the first time since 2010. We're also still on course for an Ireland vs. England Grand Slam decider.
 
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richw

richw

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JamesT said:
That was a delightfully bonkers game at Twickenham yesterday. Italy certainly managed to confuse the England team with their 'ruck-free' rugby. I'm not sure I'd want every game to turn into that, but it was great fun.

In the women's game, Scotland managed to win a Six Nations match for the first time since 2010. We're also still on course for an Ireland vs. England Grand Slam decider.
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As an amateur ref, my other ref contacts have suggested they'd find an offence.
Law 10.1d says a player may not obstruct an opponent playing the ball at the back of a ruck. It could be argued the Italian was obstructing him playing it from the back of the ruck to his fly half.
Law 10.4m acts contrary to the spirit of the game. Is it against the spirit?
 
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WelshBluebird

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The way I see it is that it was very clever coaching from Italy. Going on the assumption England would be confused and not know what to do for at least some of the game to stop them scoring big. Risky (because it the ref could have called it the other way), but clever.

But at the same time it really shouldn't have taken until half time for England to figure out a way to counter the tactic.

richw said:
As an amateur ref, my other ref contacts have suggested they'd find an offence.
Law 10.1d says a player may not obstruct an opponent playing the ball at the back of a ruck. It could be argued the Italian was obstructing him playing it from the back of the ruck to his fly half.
Law 10.4m acts contrary to the spirit of the game. Is it against the spirit?
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There was no ruck though, so surely you can't have a back of a ruck if there is no ruck?

As for spirit of the game? I think that bit falls on who is in charge of the game on the day. Certainly I wouldn't be able to argue if it was decided that way. Mind you there are a lot of acts that are a lot more commonplace that you could also argue that go against the spirit of the game too, so you'd probably have to start penalising those too!
 
Hornet

Hornet

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"16.1 Forming a ruck
(a) Where can a ruck take place. A ruck can take place only in the field of play.
(b) How can a ruck form. Players are on their feet. At least one player must be in physical contact with an opponent. The ball must be on the ground. If the ball is off the ground for any reason, the ruck is not formed."

As no ruck is formed, then there is no offside line. Simples! Regards law 10.1d the player can play the ball, he is just not able to pass the ball to his intended target. It's open play. Referee's work on a principle of ensuring that there should be at least a metre between the ball player and his opponent before the ball is passed.

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=16
 
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T

tony_mac

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richw said:
As an amateur ref, my other ref contacts have suggested they'd find an offence.
Law 10.1d says a player may not obstruct an opponent playing the ball at the back of a ruck. It could be argued the Italian was obstructing him playing it from the back of the ruck to his fly half.
Law 10.4m acts contrary to the spirit of the game. Is it against the spirit?
Click to expand...

They asked the referee before the game - he told them to give space to the player at the back of the nuck. (i.e., they aren't obstructing him in any way until he already has the ball, at which point 10.1d does not apply, even in spirit).

(I had already noticed that it has become quite common to have no defenders in a 'ruck', and was wondering why nobody else seemed to have realised there should be no offside line!).
 
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Old Yard Dog

Old Yard Dog

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JamesT said:
That was a delightfully bonkers game at Twickenham yesterday. Italy certainly managed to confuse the England team with their 'ruck-free' rugby. I'm not sure I'd want every game to turn into that, but it was great fun.

In the women's game, Scotland managed to win a Six Nations match for the first time since 2010. We're also still on course for an Ireland vs. England Grand Slam decider.
Click to expand...

Went to my first ever 6 nations game at Twickenham on Sunday as it was on my "bucket list" and also to "do" the ground (I am a member of football's "92 club"). Not being au fait with the complex rules of rugby union, I have to admit that I didn't notice that Italy were refusing to form rucks and nor, it seems, did anybody around me. I was just surprised that England couldn't get much of the ball or exploit their bigger pack. It made me wish I had forked out a few quid for one of those wireless's you can hire so you can hear what the referee was saying.
 
Xenophon PCDGS

Xenophon PCDGS

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Old Yard Dog said:
Went to my first ever 6 nations game at Twickenham on Sunday as it was on my "bucket list" and also to "do" the ground (I am a member of football's "92 club"). Not being au fait with the complex rules of rugby union, I have to admit that I didn't notice that Italy were refusing to form rucks and nor, it seems, did anybody around me. I was just surprised that England couldn't get much of the ball or exploit their bigger pack. It made me wish I had forked out a few quid for one of those wireless's you can hire so you can hear what the referee was saying.
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Did you feel that it was what the old adage states as "a game of two halves"..:roll:
 
Old Yard Dog

Old Yard Dog

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Paul Sidorczuk said:
Did you feel that it was what the old adage states as "a game of two halves"..:roll:
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To be honest, I didn't notice much of a difference. I just saw it as a classic case of a gallant underdog hanging on for the first hour and a bit, but finally been worn down in the last 10-20 mins by a fitter team. Multiple try concessions late in the game are what I dislike about both codes of rugby as they remove the uncertainty and romance and you seldom get shock results.
But I haven't any solutions. England were 500/1 on at the bookies pre match.
 
Tetchytyke

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WelshBluebird said:
But at the same time it really shouldn't have taken until half time for England to figure out a way to counter the tactic.
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And that's why Eddie Jones went big on the whingeing and small on the acknowledging that Italy played clever. It took him that long to work out what they were up to and to play around it.

As an aside, it's what I really can't stand about England and the RFU, this strutting overbearing arrogance that everyone else in the Six Nations should bend over for them every week. Italy wouldn't ever win at Twickenham in a straight fight, so they played clever.

The correct response is "yep, they were clever, but maybe World Rugby need to close the loophole" rather than the graceless whingeing about "spoiling the game", as though England have a God-given right to give the pesky Italians a 60-point pasting. Pathetic.
 
richw

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A Wales win tonight, with an English win tomorrow will make England champs with a game to spare.
As an Englishman can I bring myself to want a welsh win, I'm not so sure!
 
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JamesT

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Like buses, you wait ages for Scotland's women to win a Six Nations match and then they manage two in one year.
A slow start, Italy scored two tries but Scotland came back with two of their own to make it 14-12 at half time. No further points in the second half, though Scotland looked the more likely.

England's women completed their Grand Slam with a 34-7 victory in Ireland this evening. Though the match was mostly tighter than that scoreline would suggest. The Irish set piece was noticeably better in the first half and England needed some last gasp defending to go in 5-0 up at half time. A yellow card for a deliberate knock on at 58 minutes dented the Irish chances and the floodgates opened, though they did manage a fine try of their own to bring it back to 20-7. But the power and athleticism shone through and England deservedly won their first title for 5 years.

England's under-20 men also won a grand slam.
 
Railops

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Terrible England performance, they made a very average Irish team look quite good.
 
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RichmondCommu

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From an England fan.... Congratulations Ireland on a well deserved win. The best form of defence is to keep the ball and that's exactly what Ireland did.
 
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thejuggler

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As soon as I saw England choosing in the first 10 minutes to kick away the little possession they had I knew the writing was on the wall.

It demonstrates an arrogance that they are so superior the hard yards can be gained easily as they expect the opposition to mess up when they get the ball back. When the no. 9 tries to box kick with a player 3m in front of him it shows a real lack of any game plan.

One person who may be feeling a warm glow is Stuart Lancaster. A few of his Leinster charges will have revelled in yesterday's result!
 
richw

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Paul Sidorczuk said:
France 20....Wales 18

Just waiting for a number of situations in that never-ending period after the 80 minute mark to be clarified, as there seemed to be a number of these.
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What is it you want clarifying? I was sat watching with a group of my fellow refs. We were all astonished Wayne Barnes didn't award a penalty try with so many penalties awarded in the 'red zone' all from scrums that were being pushed.
 
Greenback

Greenback

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I'm glad I didn't watch France v Wales. Everyone who did has said it was a poor game and now all anyone can talk about is the way it ended.
 
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