Rules on leaving the station

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by ElliotS, 12 Feb 2018.

  1. ElliotS

    ElliotS New Member

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    Just a quick question before I start arguing my rights with staff at the ticket barriers and discover I am wrong.

    For many years, I've travelled with super off peak returns between Aylesbury/Great Missenden and Birmingham, many times I have needed to visit the shop at Marylebone or use the toilets, the last 2 times I've been told I'm not alllowed out onto the concourse? Recently I had a lady at the barrier at Amersham tell me I wasn't allowed out the station, but reluctantly let me (using the same ticket just for reference, I was collecting my younger brother from taxi rank outside)I always thought this was alllowed?
     
  2. mikeg

    mikeg Member

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    Utter nonsense. The ticket I suspect you held permits break of journey . In any case, using station facilities does not count as break of journey. Exiting the station however would be break of journey, but again if it's a super off peak return the outward depends on the restriction code of the ticket. The return portion ALWAYS permits break of journey on a rail-only ticket.
     
  3. 185143

    185143 Established Member

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    Part of me would be inclined to tell the staff that if they don't allow you through, you will end up having to pee on the gateline... (of course-DON'T follow up the threat!)
     
  4. ElliotS

    ElliotS New Member

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    Thank you, that's just what I thought. I don't get why the gate line staff do this when I'm perfectly entitled to leave, strikes me as a little strange to make up a rule for no good reason I can see, unless it creates some kind of issue I am not aware of.
     
  5. island

    island Established Member

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    This is perfectly fine – though I don’t know why one would want to use the toilets at Marylebone as they still charge for them, an antiquated practice which most stations have stopped.
     
  6. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Likewise most chiltern trains have toilets.

    However the request is not unreasonable another couple of good reasons I can think of someone making that request is. Wanting something to eat, do this often at Reading never got challenged (which if I would I would argue that you only have retailers x,y & z platform side - want retailer q) - however I don't recall any food retaillers barrier side at Marylebone.

    Likewise "I need to have a fag" - isn't leaving the station the only way of fixing that habit.

    But back to the point, like other posters have said you shouldn't need to justify yourself. If you have a 29 minute wait until the connection - do they really want you train side of the barrier anyway?
     
  7. MarlowDonkey

    MarlowDonkey Member

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    Why would you even need to ask? I don't think there are any passenger waiting facilities rail side at Marylebone, so just put your ticket in the barriers. If the barriers reject it, then maybe there's an issue.

    Marylebone have a practice of not announcing the train platform until about 5 minutes before departure anyway.
     
  8. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I doubt having a fag outside the station building would count, unless of course there is an area outside the station building that is part of the railway station premises. Would that count?
     
  9. PeterC

    PeterC Member

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    On the other hand, some yeas ago admittedly, I have been told by platform staff at Marylebone to wait on the concourse if my train wasn't announced.

    Amersham is of course a London Underground station and their own tickets do not allow BoJ apart from an OSI. Do LUL or National Rail rules apply? Is it the same rule if it is a NR to LUL or LUL to NR ticket?
     
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Is an Aylesbury to Birmingham via Marylebone ticket cheaper than a Marylebone to Birmingham one? This might explain why they are paranoid. Otherwise, my experience is that I have never, ever been refused permission to pop out to the shops (even outside the station) between trains even on a ticket that definitely did bar BoJ (and even when it was obvious which ones did, i.e. pre-"simplification" when all Savers barred it on the outward leg).
     
  11. island

    island Established Member

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    The normal “out” in this situation is to ask a station staff member “where can I go to smoke a cigarette”, at which point they will indicate the relevant outside location and you will be exempt from the break of journey rules as you are following the instructions of an authorized person :)
     
  12. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You are right it is strange. However I've seen, or been made aware of, such strange behaviour by gateline staff, particularly in the London area, on numerous occasions, so it is of no surprise to me. I have no idea what motivates people to apply for a customer facing job and then to mistreat customers and invent rules that do not exist. It's very odd, but unfortunately much more common than it should be, sadly.

    It wouldn't be acceptable in any other industry, but sadly the reality is that such behaviour does occur in the rail industry. You can complain but I wouldn't expect much to be done about it. The problem is endemic and there is no organisation with the power and desire to change the culture.
    The inter-availability that applies for parts of the passengers journey do not in any way reduce passenger rights. Inter-availability is designed to increase rights, not reduce them. The ticket is a National Rail ticket and there is no prohibition over break of journey at any National Rail station.
     
  13. PeterC

    PeterC Member

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    When did the London Underground become part of National Rail? Remember that you posted that in reply to a question about an Underground station.
     
  14. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It is about both Marylebone *and* Amersham.

    But he is correct; if travelling on an NR train the ownership of the station does not reduce the rights a passenger has, including to break their journey when not prohibited from doing so by their ticket.
     
  15. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

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    I've always understood that super off peak tickets don't permit break of journey, hence my question about that in my Rainham-Basildon thread.

    Out of curiosity is this ticket significantly cheaper than alternatives? If I were doing Aylesbury to Birmingham I'd want to go via Princes Risborough and Haddenham/Bicester. Surely quicker than the ridiculously slow Aylesbury-London services.
     
  16. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Super Off Peak Return tickets permit Break of Journey on the return half. On the outward half, it is down to the restriction code. Most of the LNR (ex LM) ones do bar it on the outward.

    (Super) Off Peak *Day* tickets can bar it in both directions via the restriction code but I'm not aware of any that do.

    There was I think a short period post-"simplification" when (Super) Off Peak non-Day tickets could bar in both directions and some did, but this was changed fairly quickly.
     
  17. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

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    Where can you find out what's in the restriction code for a given ticket? Would be helpful to the OP on this thread and me on my Rainham-Basildon one.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    brfares.com is as good a place as any. If you want something to show to fussy staff, use nationalrail.co.uk/CODE e.g. nationalrail.co.uk/LK to get an official page to print.
     
  19. MarlowDonkey

    MarlowDonkey Member

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    That's the route given by the National Rail journey planner. From Great Missenden it suggests the Marylebone route. From Aylesbury it sometimes suggests doubling back via Wycombe to get the faster services which skip Princes Risborough.
     
  20. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Assuming its Super Off Peak Return via Banbury the restriction code is PU.

    http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/63058.aspx
    BOJ is not mentioned at all.

    STAR says BOj is allowed unless specifically indicated by the restriction code.
     

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