Rumour that Chiltern are going to lease class 68s to replace 67s (confirmed)

[D1733]

Just half an hour ago my father phoned me up to say that the Chiltern gaffer had been with him in the cab from Bournemouth to B'ham (my dads a xc driver). He said that the gaffer told him he had just signed to lease some class 68s for chiltern to replace the 67s as they arent very economical, they burn through the fuel fast! As far as im aware im one of the first to find this out. THIS IS HAPPENING they are getting 68s. Also apparently there is a 68 hidden away somewhere in Eastleigh, the 68 had some tests done on it and it failed one and it had to have a alternator replaced. Does anyone know anything more/heard anymore? Another thing there is rumours also that Db will be purchasing 68s and will lease to Chiltern, although I don't know how likely this is as a someone I know talked to some Chiltern staff about it and they said they were going to get 68s, possibly of DB,(I have no solid evidence for this)

 

[bronzeonion]

Read about 'alternator work' at Eastleigh in the new Railways Illustrated the other day and also about how Chiltern were likely to get some.

 

[47802]

I will believe that if and when its officially confirmed, I would have thought that they would put up with the 67's until such as more 170's become available.

I'm sure they would like to get rid of Loco Hauled trains as soon as they can

 

[D1733]

I will believe that if and when its officially confirmed, I would have thought that they would put up with the 67's until such as more 170's become available.

I'm sure they would like to get rid of Loco Hauled trains as soon as they can

No they dont want to get rid of loco hauled trains, when they have the 68s running which they will, i think you will find im right. My father wouldnt lie to me!

 

[43074]

I'm sure they would like to get rid of Loco Hauled trains as soon as they can

Why? After they've spent all that money on modernising their Mark 3s with plug doors etc. I see no reason why they'd be in a hurry to replace them, and their advertising for the Mainline route is centred on the spacious Mark 3 ''Mainline'' trains, as opposed to their Clubman DMUs. This 68 deal (haven't seen any formal evidence yet) merely suggests the loco hauled trains are here to stay (remember there was a tender for 15 diesel locos last year, so this is probably it).

 

[Qwerty133]

I expect that they are leasing some class 68, as a member of TOC staff has recently posted saying they'd be surprised if they weren't operating them by the end of the year.
However there's more chance of Chiltern operating pacers than buying class 68s

 

[RPM]

To be leased from DRS as I understand it.

 

[D1733]

I can see why people dont believe me as i only found this out today and nobody really knows about it, albeit in the next months rail mags it'll be in there!

 

[Beveridges]

It really is happening. Chiltern leasing off DRS. DRS haven't ordered those expensive 68's with ETH capacity for nothing.

 

[Monty]

To be leased from DRS as I understand it.

If that is the case I would imagine DRS are planning a follow on order subject to the class's performance. Chiltern's tender is for 15 locomotives, which would utilise all of DRS's planned 68 fleet, I was under the impression DRS had otherwork lined up for them than merely subleasing them to Chiltern?

 

[BantamMenace]

A few mildly related questions:

May i enquire as to why the tender is for 15 when dont they only have 5 mark 3 rakes?

Are they getting more rakes?

Does anyone know the exact cost of the mark 3's upgrade per coach?

Are the mark 3s there to stay or would they ever consider mark 4s when a flood of those become available in the years to come?

 

[RichmondCommu]

A few mildly related questions:

May i enquire as to why the tender is for 15 when dont they only have 5 mark 3 rakes?

Are they getting more rakes?

Does anyone know the exact cost of the mark 3's upgrade per coach?

Are the mark 3s there to stay or would they ever consider mark 4s when a flood of those become available in the years to come?

By all accounts (not your words I hasten to add) all the mark 4's are heading to the MML!

 

[455driver]

A few questions if I may-

What is the boss of Chiltern doing in the cab of a rival TOCs train?
Does your Dad routinely let anyone in his cab?
You join this forum today to share this wonderful news, but have nothing to substantiate it!
The 68 is at Eastleigh for Main Alternator repairs, nothing clandestine about it being there.

I remain sceptical and putting-

THIS IS HAPPENING they are getting 68s

Doesnt change my view.
The 67s are thirsty though so at least that part is true.

 

[transmanche]

What is the boss of Chiltern doing in the cab of a rival TOCs train?

They are both part of Arriva UK Trains though, so hardly 'rivals'...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

A few mildly related questions:

May i enquire as to why the tender is for 15 when dont they only have 5 mark 3 rakes?

Are they getting more rakes?

Does anyone know the exact cost of the mark 3's upgrade per coach?

Are the mark 3s there to stay or would they ever consider mark 4s when a flood of those become available in the years to come?

1) The tender is from DBS, not Chiltern.

2) Don't know. Possibly.

3) £750k, which is significantly cheaper on a coach by coach basis than getting a new DMU in.

4) I doubt the Mark 3's will be ditched any time soon, they have been refurbished to a ridiculously high standard. I guess Mark 4's might come in as additional coaches at some point but the biggest advantage they have over Mark 3's (power doors) doesn't exist against the Chiltern Mark 3's.

What is the boss of Chiltern doing in the cab of a rival TOCs train?

Using his cab pass. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why he would be there, XC and Chiltern share a good 50 miles of track. Maybe he was refreshing Oxford?

 

[47802]

1) The tender is from DBS, not Chiltern.

2) Don't know. Possibly.

3) £750k, which is significantly cheaper on a coach by coach basis than getting a new DMU in.

4) I doubt the Mark 3's will be ditched any time soon, they have been refurbished to a ridiculously high standard. I guess Mark 4's might come in as additional coaches at some point but the biggest advantage they have over Mark 3's (power doors) doesn't exist against the Chiltern Mark 3's.



Using his cab pass. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why he would be there, XC and Chiltern share a good 50 miles of track. Maybe he was refreshing Oxford?

Ive no doubt the Loco Hauled trains will be around for the next 4+ years but as soon as DMU's become more freely available and they can get hold of more 170's etc. beyond the TPX ones they are already getting I'm sure the Loco Hauled will go in favour of a more cost effective and standardised DMU fleet. After all there was the expectation of more Loco Hauled sets to allow 168's to work the new Oxford service, but now they are getting 170's instead, I think that clearly shows what Chilterns preference is.

 

[transmanche]

3) £750k, which is significantly cheaper on a coach by coach basis than getting a new DMU in

But what about when you factor in the cost of the loco and DVT?

 

[BantamMenace]

Was there ever any talk of putting seat in the DVTs and adding windows or is this not worth the hassle?

 

[Monty]

Apart from the ones that have (controversialy may I add) come off lease from TPE I don't see where more 170s are going to come from anytime soon. Like others have said serious money has been spent on the mk3s which are owned outright rather than leased.

 

[47802]

Apart from the ones that have (controversialy may I add) come off lease from TPE I don't see where more 170s are going to come from anytime soon. Like others have said serious money has been spent on the mk3s which are owned outright rather than leased.

Possibly not in the next couple of years no, but 4 or 5 years down the line it will be a different story.

 

[Monty]

Possibly not in the next couple of years no, but 4 or 5 years down the line it will be a different story.

I still don't see where enough 170s are going to come from, not in the numbers to replace the mk3s like for like.

 

[455driver]

Using his cab pass. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why he would be there, XC and Chiltern share a good 50 miles of track. Maybe he was refreshing Oxford?

I refer you to the opening post-

Chiltern gaffer had been with him in the cab from Bournemouth to B'ham (my dads a xc driver).

Did he get lost?

 

[47802]

I still don't see where enough 170s are going to come from, not in the numbers to replace the mk3s like for like.

I think there are numerous possibilities depending on how things pan out, where quite a number of services worked by 170's could end up with cascaded 185's and/or 221/222 or even new build hybrid eDMU's.

Well of course you might say well those 170's should get cascaded down to help replace rail buses but given the TPX example that might not happen

 

[Monty]

I think there are numerous possibilities depending on how things pan out, where quite a number of services worked by 170's could end up with cascaded 185's and/or 221/222 or even new build hybrid eDMU's.

When Chiltern's parent company puts out a tender for new locomotives to run Chiltern's loco hauled operations I think it's a pretty clear sign that they do not expect to receive any more DMUs to replace its mk3 stock anytime in the foreseeable future. If and when the 170s do start to get cascaded I can think of a few places that will need them more than Chiltern.

The TPE situation is a bit different, the units came off lease end of, and Chiltern snapped them up.

 

[RPM]

Was there ever any talk of putting seat in the DVTs and adding windows or is this not worth the hassle?

Adrian Shooter was very interested in doing exactly this. It didn't happen. This may have been due to engineering considerations, or it may have been shelved because the demise of WSMR negated the need to convert more DVTs for Chiltern use*.

* It is often cited that Chiltern went for loco-hauled trains because of the availability of the withdrawn WSMR sets. This is entirely incorrect. Plans were in hand for Chiltern loco-hauled services way before the demise of WSMR. The cessation of WSMR services just speeded things up a bit.

 

[carriageline]

I can see why people dont believe me as i only found this out today and nobody really knows about it, albeit in the next months rail mags it'll be in there!

You can see from this thread your not the only person that knows it, so it's not as "exclusive, hot off the press" as you seem to make out!! Sorry to burst ya bubble

 

[tadhatter]

Was there ever any talk of putting seat in the DVTs and adding windows or is this not worth the hassle?

Good point well made!

 

[47802]

When Chiltern's parent company puts out a tender for new locomotives to run Chiltern's loco hauled operations I think it's a pretty clear sign that they do not expect to receive any more DMUs to replace its mk3 stock anytime in the foreseeable future. If and when the 170s do start to get cascaded I can think of a few places that will need them more than Chiltern.

You can say that about the TPE units but that's not what's happening and if Dft intend to leave things more to market forces there no reason why it cant happen again, and as already been suggested I think they will be getting 68's on a lease rather than actually buying them. I have no doubt that Chiltern will need to keep the Loco Hauled for around the next 5 years, but beyond that I'm sure they will look for replacements

 

[jimm]

Why? After they've spent all that money on modernising their Mark 3s with plug doors etc. I see no reason why they'd be in a hurry to replace them, and their advertising for the Mainline route is centred on the spacious Mark 3 ''Mainline'' trains, as opposed to their Clubman DMUs. This 68 deal (haven't seen any formal evidence yet) merely suggests the loco hauled trains are here to stay (remember there was a tender for 15 diesel locos last year, so this is probably it).

The advertising may be centred on the Mk3 sets, but the Mainline brand applies to both train types, with the 168s being reliveried into silver to match the Mk3s, and the two types are identified separately on the timetables as M (168) or MS (Mk3 set).

When Chiltern's parent company puts out a tender for new locomotives to run Chiltern's loco hauled operations I think it's a pretty clear sign that they do not expect to receive any more DMUs to replace its mk3 stock anytime in the foreseeable future. If and when the 170s do start to get cascaded I can think of a few places that will need them more than Chiltern.

The TPE situation is a bit different, the units came off lease end of, and Chiltern snapped them up.

I think you can probably forget all about that tender for locomotives. It was issued getting on for two years ago and nothing ever happened by way of an order, indeed the locos were supposed to be in use by this December and any tender offers that were made will have lapsed by now anyway, with the new EU rules on diesel engine emissions coming in at the end of the year.

With the deal for the 170s agreed, I can't see Chiltern rushing to convert more Mk3s anyway, so they will just need a small group of locos and DRS is probably happy to have guaranteed work for part of the 68 fleet.

The possibility that Chiltern might lease 68s, whether directly or from DRS, was discussed in many places back in 2012 when they were ordered, so it's hardly the most astonishing development if it is true, though I can't see the 'Chiltern gaffer' sharing too much more information with the original poster's father, should their paths cross again in the future.

 

[KiddyKid]

Prehaps Chiltern Gaffer was eyeing up the Voyager ready for the next aquisition!!