Northern 323s refurbishment and cascade

[js1000]

Given that CAF presented the first complete unit in January it would appear that production is going smoothly. Indeed the start of UK testing was announced at that time as being due during August though recent reports suggest this has slipped a month. But it is the DMUs that Northern urgently needs.

Porterbrook in an act of sheer desperation to extract every last penny from the 323s will strap some engines to them.

Judging by the 769 progress, they will enter service by 2025. You heard it hear first.

 

[mcnw35282]

I apologise if this has been mentioned somewhere else, but I’m on a class 323! 12:24 SHJ to LIV! Nice comfortable ride...although the sounds from the traction motors will take a bit of getting used to! There’s a thud before the motors engage...kinda like the noise the TARDIS makes before it starts to disappear!

 

[The_Engineer]

There’s a thud before the motors engage...kinda like the noise the TARDIS makes before it starts to disappear!

Main contactor going in......

 

[Bletchleyite]

I apologise if this has been mentioned somewhere else, but I’m on a class 323! 12:24 SHJ to LIV! Nice comfortable ride...although the sounds from the traction motors will take a bit of getting used to! There’s a thud before the motors engage...kinda like the noise the TARDIS makes before it starts to disappear!

I see the Northern random unit generator is still in full force and has now expanded its capabilities to EMUs...

 

[Rail Blues]

Porterbrook in an act of sheer desperation to extract every last penny from the 323s will strap some engines to them.

Judging by the 769 progress, they will enter service by 2025. You heard it hear first.

I hear they'll be taking an innovative approach with the 323s, creating new bi mode units which are emissions free in self powered mode. These long lens pictures from Wabtec show the unit under testing

 

[Loop & Link]

I see the Northern random unit generator is still in full force and has now expanded its capabilities to EMUs...

Or you mean working it’s booked diagram LT107 which includes a visit to Liverpool.

 

[pemma]

I see the Northern random unit generator is still in full force and has now expanded its capabilities to EMUs...

There are supposed to be booked 323 workings on Crewe-Airport-Liverpool services since May but for various reasons (crew training and engineering works) appearances have been rare so far.

 

[507 001]

Saw it before passing over the Huyton hey road bridge. Wasn’t convinced of what I’d seen so chased it to Archway Road to confirm

 

[73001]

Ive had the Railcam Leyland cam on for most of the week and there have been several 323s passing certainly on Thursday and Friday this week. They did seem a little out of place.

 

[mcnw35282]

There are supposed to be booked 323 workings on Crewe-Airport-Liverpool services since May but for various reasons (crew training and engineering works) appearances have been rare so far.

They must have them covering Warrington as well...the 24 mins past train from St Helens Junction starts at Warrington Bank Quay.

 

[The_Engineer]

They must have them covering Warrington as well...the 24 mins past train from St Helens Junction starts at Warrington Bank Quay.

Part of the same diagram

 

[507 001]

They must have them covering Warrington as well...the 24 mins past train from St Helens Junction starts at Warrington Bank Quay.

The booked diagram goes from Crewe to Liverpool, then does a Bank Quay before returning to Crewe later in the afternoon.

 

[DJH1971]

I apologise if this has been mentioned somewhere else, but I’m on a class 323! 12:24 SHJ to LIV! Nice comfortable ride...although the sounds from the traction motors will take a bit of getting used to! There’s a thud before the motors engage...kinda like the noise the TARDIS makes before it starts to disappear!

From St Helens Junction?

Thought they were still training drivers on the 323's?

 

[Greybeard33]

I apologise if this has been mentioned somewhere else, but I’m on a class 323! 12:24 SHJ to LIV! Nice comfortable ride...although the sounds from the traction motors will take a bit of getting used to! There’s a thud before the motors engage...kinda like the noise the TARDIS makes before it starts to disappear!

Main contactor going in......

...and the "gearchange" musical tones from the AC traction motors during acceleration and dynamic braking are generated by the Gate Turn Off thyristor (GTO) traction control package. This was cutting edge technology in the early '90s, more efficient and reliable than the old fashioned DC motors in the 319 and its ilk. It endows the 323 with its sprightly acceleration.

For a change, you can ride in the centre trailer car and listen to the deep hum from the line transformer waxing and waning with the load on the motors.

I love riding in the 323s. I hope they get the chance to kick up their heels on the Bolton line before Northern retires them.

 

[317 forever]

There isn't a fixed set in stone one as 323s being returned is dependent on 331s entering 'unrestricted revenue earning service.' Although, the 323s are officially off lease around New Year's time.

I have just started a job where I can often see trains serving Stockport from my office window. There do seem to be more 319s than 323s here now. This in itself is painting the picture that some 323s have already gone off lease, but I am prepared that in practice they are still working Glossop and Manchester Airport area services.

 

[pemma]

I have just started a job where I can often see trains serving Stockport from my office window. There do seem to be more 319s than 323s here now. This in itself is painting the picture that some 323s have already gone off lease, but I am prepared that in practice they are still working Glossop and Manchester Airport area services.

The diagrams were revised to free up 323s for Macclesfield to Blackpool, which was supposed to include some 6 car workings but due to wiring not being completed that didn't happen.

 

[davyp]

The new(ish) Piccadilly - Hazel Grove shuttle is a 323 diagram. Great to have them back at HG.

 

[Grannyjoans]

I have just started a job where I can often see trains serving Stockport from my office window. There do seem to be more 319s than 323s here now. This in itself is painting the picture that some 323s have already gone off lease, but I am prepared that in practice they are still working Glossop and Manchester Airport area services.

I saw a few 323's stabled on Longsight in the afternoon.
I used to see none at all or one at most.
None have been handed back. They're just not using them all.
The 319's are doing the Crewe services because they now go through to Lime Street now.

 

[NeilNX]

Where do we think they will go? now WMTs will go aswell with arrival of aventras in couple of years time. Shall miss them on the x city living right next to the line and riding their quick acceleration and decent smooth ride tbh for nearing 25 year old units.

 

[Grannyjoans]

Surely Northern is the only place they can go ??

319's are Okay for cruising, such as Blackpool - Airport or Lime St - Blackpool, but on the Wigan - Lime Sts via Bryn they are dire. 323's would be much better.

 

[Intercity 225]

I saw a few 323's stabled on Longsight in the afternoon.
I used to see none at all or one at most.
None have been handed back. They're just not using them all.
The 319's are doing the Crewe services because they now go through to Lime Street now.

If it’s true that Northern are choosing to put 319s in service whilst 323s sit unused could someone please explain why? In my personal opinion, the latter are far superior to the former in every way I can think of.

 

[50032]

I saw a few 323's stabled on Longsight in the afternoon.
I used to see none at all or one at most.
None have been handed back. They're just not using them all.
The 319's are doing the Crewe services because they now go through to Lime Street now.

323s are not yet cleared for passenger services over Chat Moss. Once this is sorted there'll be less units sat spare at Longsight.

 

[Red Devil]

323s are not yet cleared for passenger services over Chat Moss. Once this is sorted there'll be less units sat spare at Longsight.

Yes they are. 323239 from Crewe to Lime street via chat moss last Saturday then out to bank quay

 

[Red Devil]

323s are not yet cleared for passenger services over Chat Moss. Once this is sorted there'll be less units sat spare at Longsight.

Yes they are. 323239 last Saturday 04/08 from Crewe to Lime St then back out to bank quay.

 

[507 001]

323s are not yet cleared for passenger services over Chat Moss. Once this is sorted there'll be less units sat spare at Longsight.

If you read further up the thread you'll find they're now cleared.....

 

[Greybeard33]

Yes they are. 323239 last Saturday 04/08 from Crewe to Lime St then back out to bank quay.

According to the post below, it is unlikely that 323s will be used on the Monday - Friday Crewe services before September, because traincrew lack the combination of traction and route knowledge needed for these diagrams in the temporary timetable:

The 323 worked 09:16 Crewe-Liverpool, 11:00 Liverpool-Warrington BQ, 12:12 Warrington BQ-Liverpool and 13:28 Liverpool-Crewe etc, all booked for a 323 anyway on a Saturday.

However, with the driver training issues and route clearance issues, the latter being now being solved obviously, it must have been very last minute, as I was under the impression, there was still a while to go before 323’s would be out and about on Chat Moss.

The other 2 booked 323 diagrams into Lime Street were still 319’s.

And there won’t be any 323’s Monday-Friday, as the Crewe services are interworked with Lime St-Wigan services at the moment during the altered timetable until September, Wigan/Blackpool don’t sign 323’s.

 

[Grannyjoans]

And there won’t be any 323’s Monday-Friday, as the Crewe services are interworked with Lime St-Wigan services at the moment during the altered timetable until September, Wigan/Blackpool don’t sign 323’s.

Blackpool are set to sign 323's in the future according to a Blackpool Driver so there are indications that they will work out of Blackpool. Probably on Manchester via Chorley rather than Liverpool via Wigan.

 

[Agent_Squash]

...and the "gearchange" musical tones from the AC traction motors during acceleration and dynamic braking are generated by the Gate Turn Off thyristor (GTO) traction control package. This was cutting edge technology in the early '90s, more efficient and reliable than the old fashioned DC motors in the 319 and its ilk. It endows the 323 with its sprightly acceleration.

And now they've got insulated-gate bipolar thyristors made to sound exactly the same.

 

[Greybeard33]

And now they've got insulated-gate bipolar thyristors made to sound exactly the same.

Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors actually. Thyristors are so 20th Century!

 

[HSTEd]

Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistors actually. Thyristors are so 20th Century!

There is talk of SiC Thyristors making a comeback because they could conceivably be used to make a transformerless traction package for 25kV.