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Running Lights

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Baz37

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With regards of Day & Night running lights what are the rules regarding when switching from one to another. i.e. is there a set time depending on time of year also why do HST locos have the ability to have both sides on?
 
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I observed that class 91s on the ECML used to run with both headlights on in GNER/National Express days.

I'm also curious about when the day/night distinction came into being. Single headlights fitted from new in the 1970s were either central (e.g. class 87) or on the driver's side only (e.g. class 313). HSTs had headlights both sides but I only recall seeing the driver's side used during the day in their first years of operation. Retrofitted single headlights were centrally mounted (e.g. class 50, 86) or somewhere in between the centre and driver's side (e.g. class 47). So when did the idea of a day headlight on the non-driver's side become the custom?
 

WrongRoad

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On SWR 455, 458, 450,444 it’s driver discretion when to change from Day/Night Night/Day.
On the 707’s the headlight stays on one setting regardless of Day or Night.
 

ComUtoR

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On the 707’s the headlight stays on one setting regardless of Day or Night.

707s and 700s have two settings. They have a 'dipped' and 'main' beam.

So when did the idea of a day headlight on the non-driver's side become the custom?

I have no idea about the history of the train headlight but from what I was taught it was/is about visibility at night. 'Night' headlights face away from the Driver side as it won't dazzle the oncoming Driver as well as providing a light source for any lineside signage as the signage is 'retro-reflective'

Now that the rules for yellow fronts have changed the lighting rules are also changing with it. Not forgetting that train headlights are for you 'to be seen and not to see by' (which I still find odd)
 
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87 027

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'Night' headlights face away from the Driver side as is won't dazzle the oncoming Driver
I asked this question of a Pacer driver in the early 1990s and he seemed to think that the non-drivers side headlight would dazzle oncoming drivers at any time which is why on stock of that era (Pacers/Sprinters/Networkers etc) which had tail/marker/headlight clusters fitted on both sides, in BR days only the drivers side headlight seemed to be in use
 

class 9

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With regards of Day & Night running lights what are the rules regarding when switching from one to another. i.e. is there a set time depending on time of year also why do HST locos have the ability to have both sides on?
There’s no set times in the rules/ company instructions, it’s down to the Driver.
XC HSTs don’t have a setting on the switch to have both headlights on, other than the hazard lights of both headlights flashing.
 

Juniper Driver

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On SWR 455, 458, 450,444 it’s driver discretion when to change from Day/Night Night/Day.
On the 707’s the headlight stays on one setting regardless of Day or Night.
Not true AFAIK....Right is daytime and left is day nighttime...If you check on the 455/456/458s running about generally they will abide to these rules unless headlight failure…(oh and desiro...even says it on the headlamp switch.)
158/159 same.
707 have three settings....Nighttime/Daytime and marker lights...In the olden days on the 442s these rules never seemed to apply (and I never seemed to get it right) and 455/7s and 455/8s and /9s either didn't have a right side headlamp or it didn't work.AFAIR.
As Commuter said I think the nighttime setting on 707's may be more dipped.
 

Annetts key

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All trains must have at least one working headlamp. The prime purpose is so that track staff, train crew and signallers (obviously only in traditional signal boxes) can see a train coming towards them. Regards of day time, night time or if in a tunnel.

When HST class power cars were introduced, the bright headlights (compared to the existing locomotives and multiple units) apparently caused excessive dazzle to the drivers of trains on the adjacent line. Hence changes were made so that only one headlight could be selected instead of both being on. At the time, both lower intensity lights were left as they were, that is, both were on. Hence a HST normally would have three lights on the front.

Hence this classic image of a HST:
800px-British_Rail_Class_43_at_Chesterfield.jpg


I don’t know how many trains have any day/night arrangements, or how these are used. The trains in the area where I am normally run with exactly the same lighting regardless of whether it is daylight or not.
 

WrongRoad

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Not true AFAIK....Right is daytime and left is day nighttime...If you check on the 455/456/458s running about generally they will abide to these rules unless headlight failure…(oh and desiro...even says it on the headlamp switch.)
158/159 same.
707 have three settings....Nighttime/Daytime and marker lights...In the olden days on the 442s these rules never seemed to apply (and I never seemed to get it right) and 455/7s and 455/8s and /9s either didn't have a right side headlamp or it didn't work.AFAIR.
As Commuter said I think the nighttime setting on 707's may be more dipped.
Not too sure what your trying to say. As I said in my post it’s the driver that decides when to switch over to the Night Headlight, usually about dusk as there is no Rule Book ruling on this and the same for going back to Day Headlight about sunrise time.

707’s do have different settings but use the dipped beam regardless of Day or Night, and obviously Marker lights for depots and sidings.
 
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IETs seem to have just one setting (im probably wrong but this is just from seeing them), and that is all 4 lights plus the high level marker on in the direction of travel
 

L401CJF

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507/508s have day and night, night being on the drivers side. It's quite common for them to switch to night for the underground sections during the day too
 

Annetts key

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Surely if there are two different intensity of lights fitted, the brighter light is needed during the day so that the train can be seen by others?
 

Baz37

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IETs seem to have just one setting (im probably wrong but this is just from seeing them), and that is all 4 lights plus the high level marker on in the direction of travel
I have looked at my photos of IET (all GWR) and they do run with with both headlight on.
 

O L Leigh

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Surely if there are two different intensity of lights fitted, the brighter light is needed during the day so that the train can be seen by others?

They aren't different intensities, just differently aligned.

The day headlight is on the non-driver's side of the cab and is angled across the track towards the cess where the night headlight on the driver's side is angled to shine forward along the cess to better pick out lineside signage.
 

sw1ller

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I want to highlight this thread to TPE. Their trains are awful in the dark. Their headlight setting must be either “off” or “harvest power from passing galaxies”.
 

Deepgreen

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I want to highlight this thread to TPE. Their trains are awful in the dark. Their headlight setting must be either “off” or “harvest power from passing galaxies”.
Yet another issue apparently arising from privatisation and the concommitant fragmentation - where is the national standard on headlights? Why are different TOCs seemingly free to do what they like? The same applies to destination indicators on units - another lottery as to whether they can be read in daylight or not.
 

XAM2175

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Yet another issue apparently arising from privatisation and the concommitant fragmentation - where is the national standard on headlights? Why are different TOCs seemingly free to do what they like? The same applies to destination indicators on units - another lottery as to whether they can be read in daylight or not.

The relevant standard is GMRT2131 Issue 1: Audibility and Visibility of Trains. You will need to register an account to view it on the RSSB website:

It is derived from the requirements of the Locomotives and Passengers Technical Standard for Interoperability - as maintained by the EU Agency for Railways - so it is, in fact, an application of an international standard.

Destination displays are not so tightly regulated, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that BR did much better in specifying them.
 
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