S Stock Update

I take it that set #192 is the last S stock train to be built?

I also take it that, the only S stock that may remain at Derby, are those of which have returned there for modifications such as changed from S7+1 to S7 sets?

 

The "official last built train" unveiled earlier this year was actually T191 21565/66.

2x S8 and 2x S7 are now at Derby for engineering mods and ATO fittment.

 

Don't you mean ATC Mk.2 and ATC Mk.3 respectively for T142 and T182..?

Mk.1 being Invensys (Siemens) DTG-R atop of Westrace Interlocking and FS2550 track circuits (already in place in a lot of locations)

Mk.2 being Bombardier CBTC

Mk.3 being Thalys "CBTC"

 

I now only need nine S7 for haulage. Those I have yet to ride are:

21381/2
21382/3
21384/5
21467/8
21525/6
21547/8
21557/8
21565/6
21567/8

Of these, I saw 21557/8 and 21567/8 ( twice! ) in service on Saturday but I had my daughter with me and we were en route from A to B so I was unable to chase either unit for haulage. ( I saw 21557/8 again on Sunday, but it was parked up in Triangle Sidings ).

So unless I've missed one of the others, I make that only seven have yet to enter service. 21467/8, I believe, is still being used for signalling tests at Derby?

 

Wow peter your doing well, nearly 200 new trains and only 9 left to bash. Impressive

 

Thank you.

Would have been seven had I been able to give chase on Saturday...

 

Im still undecided still on S Stock, probably because my longest trip on 1 so far has been cannon street to kings cross and that was only last week but they seam generally good. I do think the lack of door info like the victoria line is an omition though

 

I think that will be coming with the Signalling upgrade. Once the train is able to be told what platform it is going into in advance, then it'll be able to start making announcements about it, but until then, you can't really start doing it because then the information provision is inconsistent between stops. They could create a 'dumb' system which just goes "The next station is Fulham Broadway. Doors will open on the Left Hand Side" where it is hard programmed in, but then you run into issues at places like Earls Court Westbound from Gloucester Road, where the train doesn't know if it is going into Platform 3 or 4 and other places where there are different platforms available to a train (such as Terminii). And those places with different platforms available are where the door side announcements come into their own as you can get ready before hand (if it isn't peak hours!), whilst they don't benefit a large number of people for stations where the door always opens on the same side.

 

Indeed, and that assumes that the Thalys system being fitted is able to provide this information sufficiently in advance like the Siemens / Invensys / Westinghouse system is on the Victoria Line.

 

Considering it is supposed to be more or less the same Seltrac S40 system as used on the Jubilee and Northern lines but with radio communications instead of cables, and that the Jubilee recently started doing "doors open on the X hand side" announcements, you'd hope that it would do!

 

21383/84
21385/86 are delivered to London but not yet in service.
21467/68
21547/48 are ATC test trains at Rail Innovation and Development Centre, Melton (formerly Old Dalby Test track).
21319/20 is now an S7, currently at Melton.
21323/24 still running on MET as S7+1.
21381/82 has had car 25382 inserted from 21319/20, currently at Melton.

 

The Victoria and Jubilee lines both have the information hard coded in. You'll notice that door information isn't provided at, amongst others, Seven Sisters, Stratford and North Greenwich.

Based on current reliability of 'real time' CIS information on the S stock, I'm not sure I'd want any kind of interface with the safety critical railway...

 

Never underestimate the power of budget cuts to get things de-scoped. Especially when RVAR regs need to be met by 2019 so the interim kit will need to be fully compliant, reducing the motivation to have ATP doing all them functions.

 

It's probably more of use on the Tube stock, as they have far smaller windows and thus are far harder to see out of. The vast majority of S stock passengers will be able to see the platforms as the train is pulling into the station, whereas the 2009 stock has small windows which are likely to be blocked by standing passengers!

 

Thanks; so 21557/8 and 21567/8 are the only two on my list that are currently available to me then?

 

It's less to do with window sighting and more about crush-loaded standees beginning to move towards the correct door while still in the tunnel, so as to reduce dwell time.

 

21557/58 21567/68 are the only ones in service you require

 

Does it really make that much difference? The slow bit on Tube trains is moving past the standing passengers between the seats, and with the large number of people standing between the doors, it's not as if you can quickly move towards the correct one anyway!

 

And it relies on passengers actually listening to announcements ..

But if even just a few passengers benefit then it's not really a bad thing.

 

21319/20 delivered to London, not on service
21383/84 21385/86 now in service

 

Even to this day I do not get what is the difference between S7 and S7+1

 

One extra carriage, borrowed from another unit, stuffed into an S7 to make it an 8 car but it's not an S8 because of various differences.

 

S7: 7-carriage train with 'suburban' layout (fully-longitudinal 'tube'-style seating). Used on Circle, District, and H&C lines to fit the smaller platforms, although some stations still require SDO anyway.

S8: 8-carriage train with 'express' layout (part longitudinal, part transverse bays). Used only on Metropolitan line, with some SDO.

S7+1: 8-carriage suburban layout train, made from an S7 with an extra trailer car. A number were created to use only on the Metropolitan line, to cover missing S8s due to extra engineering in Derby, and one permanently to boost the fleet.

It's technically possible for an "S8-1" 7-carriage express layout train to exist, but there has never been a need to create one.

 

wasn't it done at Derby or Old Dalby for testing reasons before the first S7? Or have I just imagined that...

 

There were indeed S8-1s used for testing infrastructure changes on the Hammersmith & City and Circle lines before any genuine S7s were available. As far as I know the S8-1s never ran in passenger service before reverting to full length S8s.

 

I stand corrected!

 

S7 21381/82 has finally been delivered to London having lain at Derby as a 6-car train since autumn 2013, as its M2D car was donated (in autumn 2012) to 21319/20 to make this an 8-car train for temporary use on the Metropolitan Line.

TfL have published this erroneous internal news item (forgetting that 21467/68 and 21547/48 are still to deliver to London !!)