S Stock Update

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by mainframe444, 1 Sep 2016.

  1. mainframe444

    mainframe444 Member

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    As it's been a while since there was a post about S Stock deliveries etc, I thought I'd post an update.

    Currently at Melton RIDC are:-

    Train 68 (21319/320) for re-commissioning as a 7 car train (was a 7+1)
    Train 99 (21381/382) now contains car 25382 which was part of T68, the car will receive overhauled bogies etc and whole train will be commissioned as a new train. This was previously at Melton RIDC and was tested with 23514 from T165, then returned to Derby.
    Train 100 (21383/384) This now contains a new build car, 23384, as 25384 remains in T70, a 7+1. This makes this train a non de-icing set.
    Train 101 (21385/386) This now contains a new build car, 23386, as 25386 remains in T72, a 7+1. This makes this train a non de-icing set.
    Train 142 (21467/468) This is the ATC Mk1 test train
    Train 192 (21567/568) This is the extra 7 car built to compensate for the remaining 7+1 sets.

    At Derby is Train 182 (51547/548) This is the ATC Mk2 test train. Expected to return to Melton RIDC for testing.

    There may be other sets at Derby, but all sets have now been delivered to Melton RIDC.

    The last to arrive was Train 101, the last of the 192 sets built.

    Hope this is of use to someone!

    MF
     
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  3. tranzitjim

    tranzitjim Member

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    I take it that set #192 is the last S stock train to be built?

    I also take it that, the only S stock that may remain at Derby, are those of which have returned there for modifications such as changed from S7+1 to S7 sets?
     
  4. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    The "official last built train" unveiled earlier this year was actually T191 21565/66.

    2x S8 and 2x S7 are now at Derby for engineering mods and ATO fittment.
     
  5. mainframe444

    mainframe444 Member

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    Train 192 is the last built, this was an extra train to the original order to compensate for trains 70 and 72 remaining as 7 + 1 sets for the Met, one to cover for ATC Mods, and the other due to an extra set being needed for the Met when the Croxley Green link opens.

    The only S Stock at Derby will be trains for mods, mainly the ongoing fitment of the ATC kit.

    MF
     
  6. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Don't you mean ATC Mk.2 and ATC Mk.3 respectively for T142 and T182..?

    Mk.1 being Invensys (Siemens) DTG-R atop of Westrace Interlocking and FS2550 track circuits (already in place in a lot of locations)

    Mk.2 being Bombardier CBTC

    Mk.3 being Thalys "CBTC"
     
    Last edited: 2 Sep 2016
  7. mainframe444

    mainframe444 Member

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    No, I'm referring to the Thales ATC project for District, Circle H&C and Met.

    T142 is fitted with their system, but in a very unfinished form, with cables and modules in the saloon.

    The Melton RIDC section where the S Stock is fitted is equipped with all the line side kit to test this.

    Train 182 will be fitted with the same kit, but in a production form, i.e. everything hidden away.

    MF
     
  8. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I now only need nine S7 for haulage. Those I have yet to ride are:

    21381/2
    21382/3
    21384/5
    21467/8
    21525/6
    21547/8
    21557/8
    21565/6
    21567/8

    Of these, I saw 21557/8 and 21567/8 ( twice! ) in service on Saturday but I had my daughter with me and we were en route from A to B so I was unable to chase either unit for haulage. ( I saw 21557/8 again on Sunday, but it was parked up in Triangle Sidings ).

    So unless I've missed one of the others, I make that only seven have yet to enter service. 21467/8, I believe, is still being used for signalling tests at Derby?
     
  9. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    Wow peter your doing well, nearly 200 new trains and only 9 left to bash. Impressive
     
  10. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Thank you.:)

    Would have been seven had I been able to give chase on Saturday... :)
     
  11. Blindtraveler

    Blindtraveler Established Member

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    Im still undecided still on S Stock, probably because my longest trip on 1 so far has been cannon street to kings cross and that was only last week but they seam generally good. I do think the lack of door info like the victoria line is an omition though
     
  12. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    I think that will be coming with the Signalling upgrade. Once the train is able to be told what platform it is going into in advance, then it'll be able to start making announcements about it, but until then, you can't really start doing it because then the information provision is inconsistent between stops. They could create a 'dumb' system which just goes "The next station is Fulham Broadway. Doors will open on the Left Hand Side" where it is hard programmed in, but then you run into issues at places like Earls Court Westbound from Gloucester Road, where the train doesn't know if it is going into Platform 3 or 4 and other places where there are different platforms available to a train (such as Terminii). And those places with different platforms available are where the door side announcements come into their own as you can get ready before hand (if it isn't peak hours!), whilst they don't benefit a large number of people for stations where the door always opens on the same side.
     
  13. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Indeed, and that assumes that the Thalys system being fitted is able to provide this information sufficiently in advance like the Siemens / Invensys / Westinghouse system is on the Victoria Line.
     
  14. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    Considering it is supposed to be more or less the same Seltrac S40 system as used on the Jubilee and Northern lines but with radio communications instead of cables, and that the Jubilee recently started doing "doors open on the X hand side" announcements, you'd hope that it would do!
     
  15. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    21383/84
    21385/86 are delivered to London but not yet in service.
    21467/68
    21547/48 are ATC test trains at Rail Innovation and Development Centre, Melton (formerly Old Dalby Test track).
    21319/20 is now an S7, currently at Melton.
    21323/24 still running on MET as S7+1.
    21381/82 has had car 25382 inserted from 21319/20, currently at Melton.
     
  16. bluegoblin7

    bluegoblin7 Member

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    The Victoria and Jubilee lines both have the information hard coded in. You'll notice that door information isn't provided at, amongst others, Seven Sisters, Stratford and North Greenwich.

    Based on current reliability of 'real time' CIS information on the S stock, I'm not sure I'd want any kind of interface with the safety critical railway...
     
  17. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Never underestimate the power of budget cuts to get things de-scoped. Especially when RVAR regs need to be met by 2019 so the interim kit will need to be fully compliant, reducing the motivation to have ATP doing all them functions.
     
  18. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    It's probably more of use on the Tube stock, as they have far smaller windows and thus are far harder to see out of. The vast majority of S stock passengers will be able to see the platforms as the train is pulling into the station, whereas the 2009 stock has small windows which are likely to be blocked by standing passengers!
     
  19. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Thanks; so 21557/8 and 21567/8 are the only two on my list that are currently available to me then?
     
  20. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    It's less to do with window sighting and more about crush-loaded standees beginning to move towards the correct door while still in the tunnel, so as to reduce dwell time.
     
  21. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    21557/58 21567/68 are the only ones in service you require
     
    Last edited: 13 Oct 2016
  22. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Does it really make that much difference? The slow bit on Tube trains is moving past the standing passengers between the seats, and with the large number of people standing between the doors, it's not as if you can quickly move towards the correct one anyway!
     
  23. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    And it relies on passengers actually listening to announcements ..

    But if even just a few passengers benefit then it's not really a bad thing.
     
  24. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    21319/20 delivered to London, not on service
    21383/84 21385/86 now in service
     
  25. HMS Ark Royal

    HMS Ark Royal Established Member

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    Even to this day I do not get what is the difference between S7 and S7+1
     
  26. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    One extra carriage, borrowed from another unit, stuffed into an S7 to make it an 8 car but it's not an S8 because of various differences.
     
  27. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    S7: 7-carriage train with 'suburban' layout (fully-longitudinal 'tube'-style seating). Used on Circle, District, and H&C lines to fit the smaller platforms, although some stations still require SDO anyway.

    S8: 8-carriage train with 'express' layout (part longitudinal, part transverse bays). Used only on Metropolitan line, with some SDO.

    S7+1: 8-carriage suburban layout train, made from an S7 with an extra trailer car. A number were created to use only on the Metropolitan line, to cover missing S8s due to extra engineering in Derby, and one permanently to boost the fleet.

    It's technically possible for an "S8-1" 7-carriage express layout train to exist, but there has never been a need to create one.
     
    Last edited: 27 Oct 2016
  28. The 4th Rail

    The 4th Rail Member

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    wasn't it done at Derby or Old Dalby for testing reasons before the first S7? Or have I just imagined that...
     
  29. Harsig

    Harsig Member

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    There were indeed S8-1s used for testing infrastructure changes on the Hammersmith & City and Circle lines before any genuine S7s were available. As far as I know the S8-1s never ran in passenger service before reverting to full length S8s.
     
  30. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    I stand corrected!
     
  31. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    S7 21381/82 has finally been delivered to London having lain at Derby as a 6-car train since autumn 2013, as its M2D car was donated (in autumn 2012) to 21319/20 to make this an 8-car train for temporary use on the Metropolitan Line.

    TfL have published this erroneous internal news item (forgetting that 21467/68 and 21547/48 are still to deliver to London !!)
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2016

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