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S Stock Update

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mainframe444

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As it's been a while since there was a post about S Stock deliveries etc, I thought I'd post an update.

Currently at Melton RIDC are:-

Train 68 (21319/320) for re-commissioning as a 7 car train (was a 7+1)
Train 99 (21381/382) now contains car 25382 which was part of T68, the car will receive overhauled bogies etc and whole train will be commissioned as a new train. This was previously at Melton RIDC and was tested with 23514 from T165, then returned to Derby.
Train 100 (21383/384) This now contains a new build car, 23384, as 25384 remains in T70, a 7+1. This makes this train a non de-icing set.
Train 101 (21385/386) This now contains a new build car, 23386, as 25386 remains in T72, a 7+1. This makes this train a non de-icing set.
Train 142 (21467/468) This is the ATC Mk1 test train
Train 192 (21567/568) This is the extra 7 car built to compensate for the remaining 7+1 sets.

At Derby is Train 182 (51547/548) This is the ATC Mk2 test train. Expected to return to Melton RIDC for testing.

There may be other sets at Derby, but all sets have now been delivered to Melton RIDC.

The last to arrive was Train 101, the last of the 192 sets built.

Hope this is of use to someone!

MF
 
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tranzitjim

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I take it that set #192 is the last S stock train to be built?

I also take it that, the only S stock that may remain at Derby, are those of which have returned there for modifications such as changed from S7+1 to S7 sets?
 

Dstock7080

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I take it that set #192 is the last S stock train to be built?

I also take it that, the only S stock that may remain at Derby, are those of which have returned there for modifications such as changed from S7+1 to S7 sets?
The "official last built train" unveiled earlier this year was actually T191 21565/66.

2x S8 and 2x S7 are now at Derby for engineering mods and ATO fittment.
 

mainframe444

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I take it that set #192 is the last S stock train to be built?

I also take it that, the only S stock that may remain at Derby, are those of which have returned there for modifications such as changed from S7+1 to S7 sets?

Train 192 is the last built, this was an extra train to the original order to compensate for trains 70 and 72 remaining as 7 + 1 sets for the Met, one to cover for ATC Mods, and the other due to an extra set being needed for the Met when the Croxley Green link opens.

The only S Stock at Derby will be trains for mods, mainly the ongoing fitment of the ATC kit.

MF
 

Nym

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Don't you mean ATC Mk.2 and ATC Mk.3 respectively for T142 and T182..?

Mk.1 being Invensys (Siemens) DTG-R atop of Westrace Interlocking and FS2550 track circuits (already in place in a lot of locations)

Mk.2 being Bombardier CBTC

Mk.3 being Thalys "CBTC"
 
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mainframe444

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Don't you mean ATC Mk.2 and ATC Mk.3 respectively for T142 and T182..?

Mk.1 being Invensys (Siemens) DTG-R atop of Westrace Interlocking and FS2550 track circuits (already in place in a lot of locations)

Mk.2 being Bombardier CBTC

Mk.3 being Thalys "CBTC"

No, I'm referring to the Thales ATC project for District, Circle H&C and Met.

T142 is fitted with their system, but in a very unfinished form, with cables and modules in the saloon.

The Melton RIDC section where the S Stock is fitted is equipped with all the line side kit to test this.

Train 182 will be fitted with the same kit, but in a production form, i.e. everything hidden away.

MF
 

Peter Mugridge

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I now only need nine S7 for haulage. Those I have yet to ride are:

21381/2
21382/3
21384/5
21467/8
21525/6
21547/8
21557/8
21565/6
21567/8

Of these, I saw 21557/8 and 21567/8 ( twice! ) in service on Saturday but I had my daughter with me and we were en route from A to B so I was unable to chase either unit for haulage. ( I saw 21557/8 again on Sunday, but it was parked up in Triangle Sidings ).

So unless I've missed one of the others, I make that only seven have yet to enter service. 21467/8, I believe, is still being used for signalling tests at Derby?
 

Blindtraveler

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Im still undecided still on S Stock, probably because my longest trip on 1 so far has been cannon street to kings cross and that was only last week but they seam generally good. I do think the lack of door info like the victoria line is an omition though
 

Domh245

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I do think the lack of door info like the victoria line is an omition though

I think that will be coming with the Signalling upgrade. Once the train is able to be told what platform it is going into in advance, then it'll be able to start making announcements about it, but until then, you can't really start doing it because then the information provision is inconsistent between stops. They could create a 'dumb' system which just goes "The next station is Fulham Broadway. Doors will open on the Left Hand Side" where it is hard programmed in, but then you run into issues at places like Earls Court Westbound from Gloucester Road, where the train doesn't know if it is going into Platform 3 or 4 and other places where there are different platforms available to a train (such as Terminii). And those places with different platforms available are where the door side announcements come into their own as you can get ready before hand (if it isn't peak hours!), whilst they don't benefit a large number of people for stations where the door always opens on the same side.
 

Nym

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I think that will be coming with the Signalling upgrade. Once the train is able to be told what platform it is going into in advance, then it'll be able to start making announcements about it, but until then, you can't really start doing it because then the information provision is inconsistent between stops. They could create a 'dumb' system which just goes "The next station is Fulham Broadway. Doors will open on the Left Hand Side" where it is hard programmed in, but then you run into issues at places like Earls Court Westbound from Gloucester Road, where the train doesn't know if it is going into Platform 3 or 4 and other places where there are different platforms available to a train (such as Terminii). And those places with different platforms available are where the door side announcements come into their own as you can get ready before hand (if it isn't peak hours!), whilst they don't benefit a large number of people for stations where the door always opens on the same side.

Indeed, and that assumes that the Thalys system being fitted is able to provide this information sufficiently in advance like the Siemens / Invensys / Westinghouse system is on the Victoria Line.
 

Domh245

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Indeed, and that assumes that the Thalys system being fitted is able to provide this information sufficiently in advance like the Siemens / Invensys / Westinghouse system is on the Victoria Line.

Considering it is supposed to be more or less the same Seltrac S40 system as used on the Jubilee and Northern lines but with radio communications instead of cables, and that the Jubilee recently started doing "doors open on the X hand side" announcements, you'd hope that it would do!
 

Dstock7080

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I now only need nine S7 for haulage. Those I have yet to ride are:

21381/2
21382/3
21384/5
21467/8
21525/6
21547/8
21557/8
21565/6
21567/8

Of these, I saw 21557/8 and 21567/8 ( twice! ) in service on Saturday but I had my daughter with me and we were en route from A to B so I was unable to chase either unit for haulage. ( I saw 21557/8 again on Sunday, but it was parked up in Triangle Sidings ).

So unless I've missed one of the others, I make that only seven have yet to enter service. 21467/8, I believe, is still being used for signalling tests at Derby?
21383/84
21385/86 are delivered to London but not yet in service.
21467/68
21547/48 are ATC test trains at Rail Innovation and Development Centre, Melton (formerly Old Dalby Test track).
21319/20 is now an S7, currently at Melton.
21323/24 still running on MET as S7+1.
21381/82 has had car 25382 inserted from 21319/20, currently at Melton.
 

bluegoblin7

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The Victoria and Jubilee lines both have the information hard coded in. You'll notice that door information isn't provided at, amongst others, Seven Sisters, Stratford and North Greenwich.

Based on current reliability of 'real time' CIS information on the S stock, I'm not sure I'd want any kind of interface with the safety critical railway...
 

Nym

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Considering it is supposed to be more or less the same Seltrac S40 system as used on the Jubilee and Northern lines but with radio communications instead of cables, and that the Jubilee recently started doing "doors open on the X hand side" announcements, you'd hope that it would do!

Never underestimate the power of budget cuts to get things de-scoped. Especially when RVAR regs need to be met by 2019 so the interim kit will need to be fully compliant, reducing the motivation to have ATP doing all them functions.
 

Mikey C

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Im still undecided still on S Stock, probably because my longest trip on 1 so far has been cannon street to kings cross and that was only last week but they seam generally good. I do think the lack of door info like the victoria line is an omition though

It's probably more of use on the Tube stock, as they have far smaller windows and thus are far harder to see out of. The vast majority of S stock passengers will be able to see the platforms as the train is pulling into the station, whereas the 2009 stock has small windows which are likely to be blocked by standing passengers!
 

Peter Mugridge

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21383/84
21385/86 are delivered to London but not yet in service.
21467/68
21547/48 are ATC test trains at Rail Innovation and Development Centre, Melton (formerly Old Dalby Test track).
21319/20 is now an S7, currently at Melton.
21323/24 still running on MET as S7+1.
21381/82 has had car 25382 inserted from 21319/20, currently at Melton.

Thanks; so 21557/8 and 21567/8 are the only two on my list that are currently available to me then?
 

rebmcr

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It's probably more of use on the Tube stock, as they have far smaller windows and thus are far harder to see out of. The vast majority of S stock passengers will be able to see the platforms as the train is pulling into the station, whereas the 2009 stock has small windows which are likely to be blocked by standing passengers!

It's less to do with window sighting and more about crush-loaded standees beginning to move towards the correct door while still in the tunnel, so as to reduce dwell time.
 

Mikey C

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It's less to do with window sighting and more about crush-loaded standees beginning to move towards the correct door while still in the tunnel, so as to reduce dwell time.

Does it really make that much difference? The slow bit on Tube trains is moving past the standing passengers between the seats, and with the large number of people standing between the doors, it's not as if you can quickly move towards the correct one anyway!
 

bramling

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Does it really make that much difference? The slow bit on Tube trains is moving past the standing passengers between the seats, and with the large number of people standing between the doors, it's not as if you can quickly move towards the correct one anyway!

And it relies on passengers actually listening to announcements ..

But if even just a few passengers benefit then it's not really a bad thing.
 

Peter Mugridge

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One extra carriage, borrowed from another unit, stuffed into an S7 to make it an 8 car but it's not an S8 because of various differences.
 

rebmcr

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S7: 7-carriage train with 'suburban' layout (fully-longitudinal 'tube'-style seating). Used on Circle, District, and H&C lines to fit the smaller platforms, although some stations still require SDO anyway.

S8: 8-carriage train with 'express' layout (part longitudinal, part transverse bays). Used only on Metropolitan line, with some SDO.

S7+1: 8-carriage suburban layout train, made from an S7 with an extra trailer car. A number were created to use only on the Metropolitan line, to cover missing S8s due to extra engineering in Derby, and one permanently to boost the fleet.

It's technically possible for an "S8-1" 7-carriage express layout train to exist, but there has never been a need to create one.
 
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The 4th Rail

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It's technically possible for an "S8-1" 7-carriage express layout train to exist, but there has never been a need to create one.

wasn't it done at Derby or Old Dalby for testing reasons before the first S7? Or have I just imagined that...
 

Harsig

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wasn't it done at Derby or Old Dalby for testing reasons before the first S7? Or have I just imagined that...



There were indeed S8-1s used for testing infrastructure changes on the Hammersmith & City and Circle lines before any genuine S7s were available. As far as I know the S8-1s never ran in passenger service before reverting to full length S8s.
 

Dstock7080

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S7 21381/82 has finally been delivered to London having lain at Derby as a 6-car train since autumn 2013, as its M2D car was donated (in autumn 2012) to 21319/20 to make this an 8-car train for temporary use on the Metropolitan Line.

TfL have published this erroneous internal news item (forgetting that 21467/68 and 21547/48 are still to deliver to London !!)
Final S Stock train joins the fleet
10 November 2016
192nd S Stock delivered to Ruislip depot
We celebrated a major milestone today when the final S Stock train was delivered to Ruislip depot. The train is the last of 192 built in the UK by Bombardier as part of the Four Lines Modernisation (4LM) programme that is transforming the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines. This delivery brings to an end the largest ever order for a fleet of trains in the UK at just over 1,400 carriages.
The S Stock trains bring massive benefits to our customers. They are longer and more spacious, with brighter, air-conditioned interiors and dedicated spaces for wheelchair users. They replace the older D Stock trains, which will be fully phased out by spring 2017.
Interim Capital Programmes Director (Major Projects), said: “This momentous delivery means that we have completed the S Stock roll-out a couple of months early, against a DfT milestone that was set as long ago as October 2010.”

The final delivery marks the completion of nine years of collaborative working across multiple project teams, suppliers, Operations and Fleet staff on one of the world’s oldest and most complex railways.
Interim Programme Director (Systems) said: “Much has changed over this time and the teams have faced many challenges, but the enthusiasm and commitment to deliver the works safely has not wavered. Everyone who has contributed to this milestone should hold their heads high and be immensely proud of their achievement.”
Operations Director, Sub-Surface Lines, added: “Thank you to Bombardier and 4LM colleagues for bringing the S Stock to our railway. Thank you also to the LU Fleet team who now maintain these trains, supported by our partners at Bombardier.”
New signalling and control systems
Work is underway to completely overhaul our ageing signalling and control systems across the sub-surface lines. The new automatic train control (ATC) signalling will allow us to run more trains, more quickly and reliably, contributing to a 33 per cent increase in capacity across the four lines by 2023.
The new signalling is being provided by Thales and is similar to the systems now successfully being used on the Jubilee and Northern lines, where performance and reliability have significantly improved and journey times have been cut.
Each of the new trains will now be fitted with a communications-based train control system at Bombardier’s factory in Derby in a rolling programme over the next couple of years.
We are already testing the new signalling system on a modified train at our Old Dalby track in Leicestershire to ensure that London's passengers benefit from a fully tested system before it starts to go live in 2018.
Challenges ahead
Interim Capital Programmes Director (Major Projects) added that his team’s next significant challenge was “to use all the lessons learnt and our talented, experienced people to deliver the ATC signalling systems at the earliest possible date”. He said: “This is critical to unlocking capacity for our customers in London, increasing revenue and reducing costs.”
Meanwhile, Operations Director, Sub-Surface Lines spelt out the focus for Operations: “Our priority now is to complete our extensive training programme to ensure that we are equipped for the challenges ahead. We also need to increase the availability of the newly delivered fleet to ensure we provide the full passenger service everyday whilst supporting the ATC modification programme.”

If you want to know more about the Four Lines Modernisation programme, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhsFWSO4mA8

 
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