SailRail tomorrow

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by dvboy, 17 Nov 2011.

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  1. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    So I was supposed to go to Belfast tomorrow, via Holyhead and Dublin, and my 12:00 Swift ferry has been cancelled, so I'll be carried on the 14:10 slower ferry instead.

    This means instead of leaving Birmingham at 7:36, I can get the 9:36 from Birmingham New Street, change at Crewe onto the 10:49 for Holyhead, arriving 12:50 - am I right?

    Looks like I'll be seeing Dublin in the dark :cry:
     
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  3. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Looks fine. Good luck.
     
  4. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    Am I due any compensation for the cancelled ferry at all? :/
     
  5. MarkyMarkD

    MarkyMarkD Member

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    I don't believe so.
     
  6. LondonJohn

    LondonJohn Member

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    Not if it was weather related. They cancel them for safety reasons.

    I bet it would have still been choppy on the conventional ferry.
     
  7. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    it was

    they dont warn you about the cost of the bus either at dublin, which was annoying having arrived with no euros and the nearest atm being a good 20 mins walk ( in the end i walked all the way to Connelly)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    had the swift sailed i believe the bus would have been free?
     
  8. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I believe the bus is free if you have a through ticket to a station in Ireland, but a ticket just to the ferryport will not include the bus. That was the case last time I did this, but that was a few years ago so it's possible it is no longer the case.

    Also, on a related subject, does anyone know what is happening to these tickets in terms of the rumours that ATOC are trying to make people reserve seats, will it simply be a case of passengers have to reserve a seat but there is no obligation to use them, or are reservations going to be mandatory, ie making the tickets Advance? If so, that would cause problems for passengers in cases like this, and must be robustly opposed.
     
  9. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    The bus is not free with Irishferries even with a ticket to Belfast you have to pay.

    I am unsure how it works with Stena having not gone that way.

    This is what Stenas website says:


    Stena
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Which I assume would be to "DUBLIN CITY (CIE" (M490) route; (+)HOLYHD STENA SHP or (+)HLYHD STENA CIV

    As opposed to "DUBLINPORT STENA" (M018) route (+)HOLYHD STENA SHP which is £1 (£2 return) more than the equivalent fare just to the port, there is no (+)HLYHD STENA CIV routing for this destination.

    So the bus is not really free but becomes a bit cheaper buying the inclusive ticket.
     
    Last edited: 20 Nov 2011
  10. embers25

    embers25 Established Member

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    Stena is free to Dublin on their own privately chartered bus.
     
  11. raildude

    raildude Member

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    The notice I've seen (@ East Coast station) says the ticket type will be changing to "Advance" with mandatory train & ferry to better manage demand on the train part of the journey due to certain trains being absolutely packed. Conductors may have had a detailed brief

    ATOC don't deal with the Sailrail, it's entirely Scotrail or (mainly) Arriva Trains Wales.
     
  12. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    Never found the Euston to Holyhead Voyager packed, busy yes but still with a few seats if you look for them.

    If changing to Advance will railcard discounts start to apply?
     
  13. raildude

    raildude Member

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    Couldn't tell you sorry. I don't see why they would stop railcards being able to get a discount. Not my field of "expertise". I think the fares for 2012 must be being announced soon(ish) though? Anyway, I guess this is perhaps a good thing, it is "simple" now, and removes ticket type names which didn't fit in to the 3 categories.
     
  14. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    In that case I strongly advise the OP, and anyone else who uses these tickets to write to the DfT, Scotrail, ATW, the ferry companies, their MPs and Passenger Focus, expressing concern about this change, and using this journey as an example why that concern is justified, and I would also ask what the solution would be, and what obligations will the customer have in such an event.
     
  15. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    Railcard holders do not get a discount at the moment except on Senior and YP railcards on Stena to Belfast.
     
  16. island

    island Established Member

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    I believe it's more to do with people stopping short than managing demand.
     
  17. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    I can't see how advances will stop people stopping short anyway. People stop short on advances anyway don't they?

    It won't better manage demand because it will steer all passengers onto one train, which will be the 'boat train' anyway and will now run a greater risk of being 'packed'. The current arrangements mean that people arrive at the ports on a selection of trains. In practice this excuse is totally disingenuous because there aren't that many foot passengers really. Another massive pain in the arse is that it will prevent the use of boats from Cairnryan that Stena don't want you to use for some reason. Stena wouldn't sell Rail & Sail tickets for the very useful 03:30 boat to Belfast, but in practice if you turned up at a station and bought a ticket for the earlier boat and just went later nobody minded. Their reasoning was that 03:30 was an unsociable time and the 'most people don't want to travel at that time'. Fine for 'most people', but this patrician approach to the travelling plans of individuals was unnecessary and up till now avoidable.

    There is already a drastic change to Rail & Sail with Stena on their website. It is apparently no longer possible to book (at least by phone with Stena; not sure what happens if you turn up at a station and buy a ticket) from England/Wales to Northern Ireland, or from Scotland to the Republic. The only options are stations in Scotland to Belfast, or stations in England/Wales to Dublin/Rosslare. The through ticket to Belfast via Dublin has gone as well.
     
    Last edited: 21 Nov 2011
  18. island

    island Established Member

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    To expand a little. Under the current situation, currently a ticket from London Terminals to Dublin City CIE route +HOLYHD STENA SHP costs £33, less than a single from London Terminals to Chester, Holyhead, etc., and is valid at any time to boot. Customers are therefore buying tickets to Dublin and using them at peak times, but not continuing to Ireland. Similar behaviour exists with London Terminals to Glasgow Cen/Qst vs London Terminals to Belfast NI route +STRANRAER STENA (although I think this is getting removed by other means).

    By only selling SailRail as advances, and only offering trains which connect with the ferry, they will drastically cut down on people who use the tickets in place of Anytime tickets, as for the most part those people won't be able to get the ticket for the train they'd like to use (and stop short on).
     
  19. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    I believe NFM11 is due to be published on 5th December so we shall see the detail then.

    I can already think of ways to continue to misuse them but I can't think of any way to continue using them legitimately to Ireland as you can do now.

    All this seems to achieve is preventing legitimate travel and pushing people onto planes whilst doing very little to prevent their abuse. <(
     
  20. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    I think we all understand this TBH. I agree with Wintonian that misuse will continue, although you are right that it will decrease, but it will be another hammer blow for Rail & Sail.

    The 'other means' is the removal of England > Northern Ireland Rail & Sail tickets. This would be a big shame for legitimate users except that this weekend's closuse of Stranraer and diversion to Cairnryan made those tickets pretty rubbish anyway. It's already usually quicker to go from West Yorkshire (for example) to Belfast via Dublin anyway.
     
    Last edited: 21 Nov 2011
  21. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    It's annoying that it's changing, however I think I will be flying to Belfast in the future, unless I only go as far as Dublin.
     
  22. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

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    I buy SailRail tickets as they allow me to travel at times to suit me, stopping off on route if I wish.

    If they do change to only being valid on specific trains determined by the TOCs, I might as well change to air which is much quicker and no dearer (often cheaper in fact).
     
  23. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Indeed. No more Rail & Sail for me. OTOH now that I have no living relatives in NI any more, and the DEMUs have all but gone, my need to visit Ireland will be limited to the occasional RPSI or MRSI do, so it's not a pressing concern.

    Is this just another case of TOCs failing to understand customers' wants and thinking that they will still travel no matter what nonsense they impose? They won't just lose Ireland-bound passengers to the airlines, but North Wales bound passengers currently 'dishonestly' (ha!) travelling on Rail & Sail tickets. These people will not necessarily go "oh well, we've been found out, time to pay the huge fares now demanded", and get some cash out of the huge reserves that TOCs seem to think everyone has lying around and should just give to them instead. Point is many of these people's journeys are only possible because Rail & Sail tickets are affordable. Many of these people will drive or use the bus or not travel, resulting in LOST revenue.

    Or perhaps it is that highly corrosive view held by a large number of posters on here that the public are fundamentally a bunch of liars and cheats who will always 'abuse' any apparent loophole?
     
    Last edited: 23 Nov 2011
  24. bkhtele

    bkhtele Member

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    Traveling from Swindon to Belfast via Glasgow will become very difficult if I have to rely on the automatic trains chosen by the reservation system. With doubtful connections and sometimes the wrong ferry or no ferry in the system the tickets will become unusable. Looks like I will be using the £19 easyjet flights from Bristol. A real pity.
    Rail sail tickets: Ticket machine in stations are strange re rail sail tickets.
    FGW machines in Swindon & Paddington don't sell these tickets, Didcot did sell them but would not last month. Yesterday the FGW machine in Bath Spa will sell the £49 Belfast via Cairnryan ticket, but Swindon would not. Does anyone know why?
     
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