Salford Central

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PR1Berske

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What can be done with Salford Central, if anything, as the regeneration/electrification/Hub engineering works gather pace? There's long since dead platforms covered in greenery, and I'm not entirely sure if they could be used once all the works in the Manchester and northern area are completed.

Do any plans exist for a Central with more than the current two platforms?
 
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Joseph_Locke

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What can be done with Salford Central, if anything, as the regeneration/electrification/Hub engineering works gather pace? There's long since dead platforms covered in greenery, and I'm not entirely sure if they could be used once all the works in the Manchester and northern area are completed.

Do any plans exist for a Central with more than the current two platforms?


At peak, Salford Central had four platforms (on the line to what is now Salford Crescent) and four through lines (now called the Chat Moss Lines to Ordsall Lane Junction). Each of these routes was reduced to two tracks meaning that Central has no platforms on the Chat Moss lines.

Northern Hub's Ordsall Chord will (probably) re-instate two of Chat Moss lines (assuming that the junction-on-a-curve idea doesn't work at Trinity Way) which means that, if this were done literally, Salford Centrl would still only have two platforms. What was discussed in NR's previoUs GRIP2 work was to re-align the curretn pair of Chat Moss lines through the out-of-use platforms, to use the current Chat Moss line alignment for the Chord lines and to leave space for platforms on these lines too.

All these changes have a big impact on the aquarium frontage, but the platform element isn't a key part of the Hub plan (though recent comment appears to suggest that TfGM wouldn't be chuffed if Liverpools and Chord services didn't call at Central).
 

cle

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It seems obvious and such a relatively easy win, especially with Spinningfields (and the new footbridge!) - a rebrand of the station (rename?) might help also.
 

snail

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a rebrand of the station (rename?) might help also.
Salford is something of an oddity when it comes to finding its centre. Central station is I think so named because it is close to the former town hall in Bexley Square. It was plain 'Salford' until Salford Crescent was opened in the 1980s. Bexley Square was (and may still be for all I know) the measuring point for 'Salford' on road mileages.

The social centre migrated west to Pendleton in the mid-20th century so Salfordians of that vintage will see that area as the centre. A good example is the naming of Salford Crescent which, confusingly for outsiders, replaced Pendleton Broad Street station a few hundred yards away (which even more confusingly wasn't on Broad Street!). The civic centre, OTOH, moved out to Swinton with the 1974 reorganisation as they had a larger, much more suitable building in its own grounds.

Perhaps Swinton station should become Salford Central, with that station becoming Spinningfields?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Salford Central station these days is ideally situated for the Spinningfields professional and business sector that has so revitalised that part of the area. It is also extremely close to Manchester Crown Court and to Salford Cathedral, so you would say that it now reflects the image of a very new vision of a city station for Salford. Look at how this station has doubled its passenger usage in the 2006 to 2010 period, with many from the Spinningfields complex now using this station.

Some say that Salford Central station is too near to Manchester Victoria station, which soon will be benefitting from the Ordsall Link, but the same could be said for the position in which Manchester Oxford Road station finds itself juxtaposed to Manchester Piccadilly station.
 

snail

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Some say that Salford Central station is too near to Manchester Victoria station, which soon will be benefitting from the Ordsall Link, but the same could be said for the position in which Manchester Oxford Road station finds itself juxtaposed to Manchester Piccadilly station.
Yes, this is the essence of the light rail vs heavy rail argument that some find hard to grasp. When I was commuting to an office in Manchester roughly halfway between Deansgate and Oxford Road stations the thought of having to get a 'fast' train to or from Piccadilly was not attractive even though the extra distance is no more than a 10 minute walk.

One person's convenience is another's time wasting. You can't win 'em all I suppose.
 

dggar

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Salford is something of an oddity when it comes to finding its centre. Central station is I think so named because it is close to the former town hall in Bexley Square. It was plain 'Salford' until Salford Crescent was opened in the 1980s. Bexley Square was (and may still be for all I know) the measuring point for 'Salford' on road mileages.

The social centre migrated west to Pendleton in the mid-20th century so Salfordians of that vintage will see that area as the centre. A good example is the naming of Salford Crescent which, confusingly for outsiders, replaced Pendleton Broad Street station a few hundred yards away (which even more confusingly wasn't on Broad Street!). The civic centre, OTOH, moved out to Swinton with the 1974 reorganisation as they had a larger, much more suitable building in its own grounds.

Perhaps Swinton station should become Salford Central, with that station becoming Spinningfields?

It used to be said that you would never see a Salford Corporation bus with "Salford" on the destination blind.
 

Joseph_Locke

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Salford Central station these days is ideally situated for the Spinningfields professional and business sector that has so revitalised that part of the area. It is also extremely close to Manchester Crown Court and to Salford Cathedral, so you would say that it now reflects the image of a very new vision of a city station for Salford. Look at how this station has doubled its passenger usage in the 2006 to 2010 period, with many from the Spinningfields complex now using this station.

Some say that Salford Central station is too near to Manchester Victoria station, which soon will be benefitting from the Ordsall Link, but the same could be said for the position in which Manchester Oxford Road station finds itself juxtaposed to Manchester Piccadilly station.

Spot on Paul, the Manchester CBD is now Spinningfields, making Salford Central a prime stop (if trains could stop there).

However, Central may / could have six through platforms to Victoria's four - Central would be Victoria's Oxford Road. Look how both Oxford Road and Picc are busy, but in different ways. I can see Vic being the interchange for Leeds - Liverpools with Airports and Barrows plus Metrolink, whereas Central will be a destination.
 

Bevan Price

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It used to be said that you would never see a Salford Corporation bus with "Salford" on the destination blind.

Not much different to Manchester Corporation, which displayed destinations such as Piccadilly, Cannon St. or Stevenson Sq., rather than Manchester. Adequate for regular travellers, but unhelpful if you were a visitor and saw a Manchester bus in somewhere like Oldham or Stockport.
 

PR1Berske

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Some interesting replies, cheers folks. I like the sound of Salford becoming the "Oxford Road for Victoria". But that would need a lot of money being spent, I assume, on getting passenger access back to those platforms currently covered in greenery and trees?

Interesting times ahead, in any case!
 

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I think the point though is that money is being spent anyway in that area so it's not so much extra to go through the disused platforms as part of the Ordsall chord if practical.
ISTR that there was work done on the trackbed of those platforms around 2007, around the time the entrance was remodelled.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Of course new platforms has more potential but where would the services run from these platforms? Maybe 2 is enough.
 

Joseph_Locke

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I think the point though is that money is being spent anyway in that area so it's not so much extra to go through the disused platforms as part of the Ordsall chord if practical.
ISTR that there was work done on the trackbed of those platforms around 2007, around the time the entrance was remodelled.


It's all a bit painfull, because the greenhouse on the front of Central would have to come down to rebuild the bridge for the reinstatement of the two OOU platforms, and be modified if a lift was needed to a new southern side platform (on the Up direction Chord line). Between these two things there's not much left of it - a sad piece of blinkered design.

Compare and contrast this with Piccadilly: the sawn-off feel the concourse structure has at the platform 1 end is because it was designed to allow the additional A&B platforms to be added, originally for Marples, now most likely for the HS2 interim terminus.
 

Train jaune

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Was in Salford a couple of weeks ago and first time I've used Salford Central in years. Was quite impressed with the the concourse with the greehouse and the restored brick arches. But when you went up to the platforms it was loke a timewarp back to 1972. I'm six foot tall but it's one hell of a climb from the platform into the carriage. Felt like I needed a box to step up from
 

lancastrian

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What can be done with Salford Central, if anything, as the regeneration/electrification/Hub engineering works gather pace? There's long since dead platforms covered in greenery, and I'm not entirely sure if they could be used once all the works in the Manchester and northern area are completed.

Do any plans exist for a Central with more than the current two platforms?

Well this has been an intersting debate about Salford Central Station. I used to use Salford Central Station in the 1980's before the Windsor Link was built and opened, and as a matter of oppinion, completely messing up the L&Y route out of Manchester to what is now Salford Crescent. A badly planned and sited station if there was one.

I used to work in the area behind Knott Mill & Deansgate Station, so I was pleased with not having to walk all the way from Salford Central, but missed the exercise. Salford Central is much better placed for many parts of Central Manchester than either Victoria or Piccadilly. Only Oxford Road is as good.

All four platforms would be a real advantage for when the Northern Hub is finished. It would be a tight curve off the old LNWR line into the now disused platfroms, but as the trains would be stopping or starting, then high speed would not be necessary. Then the current though (LNWR) lines would be used for the Ordsall Curve and Platforms could be built on them, there is space as there were four lines through here plus the former bay platform at Salford Central space is also available.

As all this is common sense, don't expect any of these good ideas actually put into practice. We are dependent upon Politicans, and we all know have useful they are, with a few honourable exceptions. They will look at the cost, pare them down to the very basics and then in a few years time when they should have done something that was cut, they will then pay for it to be done at at least 3/4 times the cost. Consider the Aberdare line platform length shambles.

Just my personal views.
 

Inox

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People are talking about the newish development that has become Spinningfields. Some people may know that the area going up toward Manchester (NCP car park, Washington House) is subject to a mandatory purchase order and is likely to see some re-generation in the medium term.

As an aside, perhaps this should be on a new thread, but I'll chance my arm here, no-one else still massively disappointed to see (i know it's been years - but still gets my goat) that Salford Central is still in a poor condition once you get past the lavish frontage and ticket office? Don't get me wrong it's a massive improvement on what was there previously, but in terms of the platforms you still need a step ladder to get on the train. bit of a moan, but the station could do with looking at properly considering the volume of the mid-week patronage
 

HowMuch?

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Not sure why we have to be so defensive on here. Your points are good ones (especially if it is difficult to get on or off the trains). By raising your points you are being constructive, not moaning.

Let others say you are "moaning" if they want. We can draw our own conclusions about their attitude to the need for sensible changes to improve the rail system.

(Just read this through - I sound like "Patronising of Tunbridge Wells".)
 

PR1Berske

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It is a bit of a contrast from glass-bowl to ancient looking platforms, not least now the apartments and buildings surrounding it are so hypermodern too!
 

Joseph_Locke

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Of course new platforms has more potential but where would the services run from these platforms? Maybe 2 is enough.


Sorry, but I've only just spotted this one: The answer is "anywhere you'll be able to go from Victoria (Barrow, Blackpool, Southport, Liverpool, Piccadilly, manchester Airport, Stockport, Stalybridge, Leeds, Rochdale and possibly Burnley)", but this is only true with four or six platforms at Central. If you leave Central at the current two,the answer is reduced to "(Barrow, Blackpool, Southport, Rochdale and possibly Burnley)" which isn't quite so attractive!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is a bit of a contrast from glass-bowl to ancient looking platforms, not least now the apartments and buildings surrounding it are so hypermodern too!

In my opinion it is atrocious - the platform level has had virtually no attention in over 20 years. I take every opportunity to highlight the disgrace that is Central to those with money - eventually I might win!
 

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I was interested in this discussion as although I cannot remember using Salford Central I frequently pass the station on the former LNWR lines to Victoria. One thing that surprises me is the remarkably few number of passengers who use the station. The last set of data published gives 238k passengers/year (800/day or 4 per train) – not impressive for a city centre station. For comparison Victoria and Oxford Rd have > 6.0 million/year and even Deansgate has 323k/year.

I seem to remember at one time it was served in peak hours only but these days there are plenty of trains – off peak 6 trains per hour in each direction with a good range of destinations and presumably a few more in the peak.

So it must be rather difficult to justify spending serious money on Salford Central when Victoria needs demolishing and starting again and there are plenty of other busier stations in Greater Manchester that would benefit from some TLC and cash.

If the money was available I think the best thing to do around this area would be to reinstate the track through the disused platforms at Salford Central then build a new viaduct from the west end of Central over the derelict land and Ordsall Lane Junction area to join the Chat Moss line west of the junction thus separating the Liverpool traffic from the North-South traffic. Pricey but if it fits (and I am not sure it would due to the road bridge west of the junction) it would alleviate some of the problems with the Ordsall Chord. It wouldn’t cost any more than the diversion viaduct currently being built to take the DLR around the Crossrail tunnel at Pudding Mill Lane but that is a totally different can of worms.
 

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I travel through Salford Central quite regularly and I'm always struck by how good a condition the canopy and fencing on the disused platform are in, bearing in mind they must have been out of use for around twenty years. Thay said, I don't think it would win any architectural awards.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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So it must be rather difficult to justify spending serious money on Salford Central when Victoria needs demolishing and starting again and there are plenty of other busier stations in Greater Manchester that would benefit from some TLC and cash..... It wouldn’t cost any more than the diversion viaduct currently being built to take the DLR around the Crossrail tunnel at Pudding Mill Lane but that is a totally different can of worms.

The question regarding Manchester Victoria station is another matter which should really not come into this debate about Salford Central railway station. Salford Central now has a totally new customer base on its doorstep with the Spinningfields area complex of "vibrant" new office blocks full of people and matters should be put into motion to develop the platform facilities to make this railway station far more-user friendly. I would offer up Blackburn as an example of how a decrepit railway station has been totally modernised.
 

lancastrian

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The question regarding Manchester Victoria station is another matter which should really not come into this debate about Salford Central railway station. Salford Central now has a totally new customer base on its doorstep with the Spinningfields area complex of "vibrant" new office blocks full of people and matters should be put into motion to develop the platform facilities to make this railway station far more-user friendly. I would offer up Blackburn as an example of how a decrepit railway station has been totally modernised.

So true. Blackburn is also another example of where previous cutbacks had needed to be reversed and closed platforms reopened so that the station can handle the extra passengers and services. Lets hope that Salford Central has its two closed platforms reopened and rebuilt so thet you don't need a safety net to get off the train.
 

yorksrob

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At least there isn't a splendid trainshed to destroy at Salford Central, unlike at Blackburn.
 

lancastrian

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At least there isn't a splendid trainshed to destroy at Salford Central, unlike at Blackburn.

You are so right about that. But any improvment at Salford Central will be of great benefit. The out of use platforms are certainly needed for the services that will use the Ordsall Curve and for the trains using the old LNWR lines out of Victoria.
 

yorksrob

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You are so right about that. But any improvment at Salford Central will be of great benefit. The out of use platforms are certainly needed for the services that will use the Ordsall Curve and for the trains using the old LNWR lines out of Victoria.

Yes, there always seem to be a decent number of people getting on/off there when I pass through it.
 

lancastrian

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Yes, there always seem to be a decent number of people getting on/off there when I pass through it.

Well I used Salford Central quite often on Saturdays, especially if I am going into central Manchester, it is much closer for the places I want to get to there. Even on a Saturday it is quite well used
 

John55

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The question regarding Manchester Victoria station is another matter which should really not come into this debate about Salford Central railway station. Salford Central now has a totally new customer base on its doorstep with the Spinningfields area complex of "vibrant" new office blocks full of people and matters should be put into motion to develop the platform facilities to make this railway station far more-user friendly. I would offer up Blackburn as an example of how a decrepit railway station has been totally modernised.

It is all well and good saying how vibrant etc the area south of the station is but passengers don’t seem to want to use it that much. Is there evidence that the development over the river has increased use of the station? I have never heard of a station’s usage being transformed by resurfacing and lifting a platform level but I will be interested to hear if it has.

I am bemused by your comment about Victoria. I understand it to mean we should spend what little money that is available on improving stations based on speculation as to their future use and disregard the passengers who are actually using the network today.

I was not suggesting that Salford Central is ignored but should take its turn with other projects on merit.

You are so right about that. But any improvment at Salford Central will be of great benefit. The out of use platforms are certainly needed for the services that will use the Ordsall Curve and for the trains using the old LNWR lines out of Victoria.

Post electrification there will be 2 slow trains to Liverpool on the Chat Moss line that might stop at Salford and that is about it, and are you really expecting trans-pennine trains via the Ordsall Chord to stop at Victoria, Salford, Oxford Rd and Piccadilly?

Yes, there always seem to be a decent number of people getting on/off there when I pass through it.

Well I used Salford Central quite often on Saturdays, especially if I am going into central Manchester, it is much closer for the places I want to get to there. Even on a Saturday it is quite well used

I am at a loss to understand how the station can be busy when so few are recorded as using it. Is there any reason you can think of why this apparent contradiction exists? Is it that a few peak trains are busy and the rest unused at Salford Central or is some other factor at work?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I am at a loss to understand how the station can be busy when so few are recorded as using it. Is there any reason you can think of why this apparent contradiction exists? Is it that a few peak trains are busy and the rest unused at Salford Central or is some other factor at work?

Even with the poor quality of the station facilities for intending passengers at rail level and the reported platform height problems, the passenger figures at Salford Central for the 2007 to 2010 period show an increase of some 52.5% over that period, which does tally with the openings of new premises in the Spinnngfields complex. If the station received a similar platform level improvement similar to that at Blackburn, it would be an even more attractive proposition for intending passengers.Why do you think that retail outlets such as John Lewis spend very large amounts of money on the updating of their premises in order to make their stores even more attractive to prospective users. National Rail could learn something from organisations such as these.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am bemused by your comment about Victoria. I understand it to mean we should spend what little money that is available on improving stations based on speculation as to their future use and disregard the passengers who are actually using the network today.

Network Rail have already made comment on what they intend to spend their money on at Manchester Victoria railway station, which is why I made the suggestion that matters on that railway station should be discussed on another thread. By all means, there is a debate worth having with regard to that matter, but I would ask if you have read all the proposals published to date that concern the future of Manchester Victoria railway station and the development of the surrounding area, notwithstanding the increase in platform capacity for the Manchester Metrolink system.

Do not forget that the Ordsall Chord proposals will bring a different service pattern at Manchester Victoria with a passenger footfall to match. Are you saying that Network Rail have not taken this matter under consideration ?

As for the comment that I read on this forum concerning the rebuilding of Manchester Victoria railway station, how would this affect the rail service provision in the time of reconstruction and what would happen to the current through running facilities of the Manchester Metrolink system ?
 
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Off-peak, Central is a very quiet station, and the majority of people jumping off Victoria bound trains.....seem to jump straight back on when they see where they are!

But in the peaks, its a different story. You might leave Victoria with what you think is a quiet-ish train, then you turn up at Central, and you leave full and standing!

Those disused platforms should be brought back into use, if it was just to get the East terminators out of the way at Victoria!
 
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