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Santander Branches to close

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radamfi

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Most accounts have an IBAN as well, but as almost nobody needs to do international transfers on a day to day basis (I've done about two ever, everything else has been card or PayPal) it's very low down the list of concerns.

But why have a separate account number for domestic and international use? We might as well use the IBAN for everything. That's what they do elsewhere.
 
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underbank

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Paper cheques were never free of error or fraud though. I don't think photos make them any less secure.

Despite what they'd have you believe, cheques weren't actually checked very thoroughly by the banks when they were processed by hand. I used to work in audit and one of the things we did on all jobs (the norm back in the 80s) was to ask the banks for a batch sample of cleared cheques so that we could check the name on the cheque matched the name in the firm's ledgers (i.e. that the cheque was actually paid to the person it was purported to have been paid to). Many times, we'd find cheques where the amount in words wasn't the same as the amount in numbers (usually accidental error) - it demonstrated that the bank staff weren't actually checking the words written matched the numbers which should have been a pretty fundamental thing for them to check! We also regularly found cheques signed by people without authority - i.e. where a book-keeper had the authority to sign cheques up to £x amount, manager to sign up to £y and a director to sign larger - or where two signatures were required, again the bank staff weren't actually checking to the account mandate as to who had the authority and how many signatures needed.

Just like today with signature strips etc., a lot of the so-called "security measures" are smoke and mirrors to deter opportunism and are pretty much insignificant to guard against organised crime/fraud or career criminals.
 

bnm

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I don't see that happening as that is open to fraud.
If you have the original paper cheque, it's very easy to tell if it's been changed.

It has already happened. I've paid in three cheques by photo in the last few months using my Bank of Scotland app.
 

Bletchleyite

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But why have a separate account number for domestic and international use? We might as well use the IBAN for everything. That's what they do elsewhere.

Because it'd be a load of effort to change it to the benefit of a very, very small number of people, most of whom are savvy enough to know what an IBAN is, what theirs is and how to use one.

Like many things if you were starting now you wouldn't do it the way we have (for instance, you'd never build a railway from scratch with the UK's limited loading gauge), but the fact is that we are not starting now.
 

radamfi

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Because it'd be a load of effort to change it to the benefit of a very, very small number of people, most of whom are savvy enough to know what an IBAN is, what theirs is and how to use one.

Like many things if you were starting now you wouldn't do it the way we have (for instance, you'd never build a railway from scratch with the UK's limited loading gauge), but the fact is that we are not starting now.

IBANs have only been in use for a few years and other countries scrapped their old numbering systems in favour of IBAN.
 

Bletchleyite

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IBANs have only been in use for a few years and other countries scrapped their old numbering systems in favour of IBAN.

That doesn't mean it makes sense for the UK to follow. In mainland Europe people transact with people from other countries a lot more than they do in the UK, and the use of transfers is more common, whereas because the UK has used credit and debit cards far longer than most other countries they have become the predominant method of payment rather than transfers, leaving international transfers to be a very niche thing indeed, and often catered for on a more economical basis by the likes of Western Union than the banks.

The cost of changing systems would be massive, and I'd venture it would benefit fewer than 5% of accountholders.
 

Bertie the bus

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Many countries have not used cheques along the British/American system for at least 50 years so there really is no need for them.
You're correct - there is no need for cheques in countries that haven't used them for 50 years. There is, however, a need for cheques in Britain. The fact the banks wanted to phase them out and were forced to do a U-turn should give you a clue there.

It's always amusing when somebody says some random country does this so we should do it. I'm really not interested in how the economy in Mozambique works thanks and even if I did want to know I wouldn't automatically want to us to copy it.
 

radamfi

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The cost of changing systems would be massive, and I'd venture it would benefit fewer than 5% of accountholders.

But surely as we have IBANs as well as sort codes we have the cost of maintaining two systems at the moment.
 

radamfi

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You're correct - there is no need for cheques in countries that haven't used them for 50 years. There is, however, a need for cheques in Britain. The fact the banks wanted to phase them out and were forced to do a U-turn should give you a clue there.

It's always amusing when somebody says some random country does this so we should do it. I'm really not interested in how the economy in Mozambique works thanks and even if I did want to know I wouldn't automatically want to us to copy it.

Other countries have stopped using cheques for good reasons and I can't see what is so special about Britain that it needs them. The only reason appears to be because we have always used them.
 

cjp

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In this country rather than go the IBAN route we seem to beheading to the pay to mobile phone number. Hurrah say I as it is one less number to remember.
 

ainsworth74

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We don't handle cash. One of my clients is a convenience store who handle lots of cash - he banks with CoOp but they don't have local branches, so he pays the cash into the local post office instead. So he never goes to a physical branch of his bank either.

When I volunteered at a local charity shop I always seemed to be lumbered with taking the cash to the Post Office to pay in (can't have been related to me being a young 20 something male and the rest of the staff 40+ women :lol:). I believe we banked with Santander who didn't have a branch anywhere near by. I must admit I do think Post Office's (including those within other shops) have a significant roll to play as bank branches slowly close down.

If cheques are too open to fraud, may as well just not bother with them... like the idea was floated about a few years ago.

I must admit I've always thought a properly filled in cheque is probably the most secure method of transferring money. Even compared to online bank transfers (which I full embrace don't get me wrong!).


Most accounts have an IBAN as well, but as almost nobody needs to do international transfers on a day to day basis (I've done about two ever, everything else has been card or PayPal) it's very low down the list of concerns.

Yes the only time I had to use my IBAN was to get delay compensation from DB after a trip in Germany! Took me a while to find a document that had it on it as I was used to just using the details from my debit card when account numbers were required!!
 

Killingworth

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Most accounts have an IBAN as well, but as almost nobody needs to do international transfers on a day to day basis (I've done about two ever, everything else has been card or PayPal) it's very low down the list of concerns.

You can make payments around the globe now from Lloyds, Santander, Barclays, Nat West and all the major bank's accounts with the necessary receiving IBANs. UK IBANs all include the sorting code and account numbers. I've no need to make international payments on a regular basis but did pay for a holiday online that way a couple of years ago. Used to have to go to branch with ID and it took so long I only did it once.

The world moves on, otherwise we'd still be using Bills of Exchange.
 

PeterC

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But why have a separate account number for domestic and international use? We might as well use the IBAN for everything. That's what they do elsewhere.
Just checked my bank statement. The IBAN is is just the UK sort code and account number with an 8 digit international routing code added to the front.
 

Qwerty133

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Just checked my bank statement. The IBAN is is just the UK sort code and account number with an 8 digit international routing code added to the front.
In which case it makes even less sense. In fact I'd argue it'd be like instating a need to dial the area code when dialling another local landline or the country code while inside the country.
 

Bertie the bus

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Other countries have stopped using cheques for good reasons and I can't see what is so special about Britain that it needs them. The only reason appears to be because we have always used them.
Would those good reasons be the banks wanting to reduce costs and make as much profit as possible? Of course being good sheep we should do exactly what multi-national companies want us to do. They have our interests at heart after all.
 

radamfi

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Would those good reasons be the banks wanting to reduce costs and make as much profit as possible? Of course being good sheep we should do exactly what multi-national companies want us to do. They have our interests at heart after all.

Cheques are inconvenient for customers too. When we receive cheques, we have the hassle of paying them in, plus the wait for clearance. It is also inconvenient if someone demands to be paid by cheque, when we could use bank transfer.
 

sprunt

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How often do people here have anything to do with cheques, either paying for something with them or receiving them? For the last few years, my experience of them has been limited to receiving one each year as a birthday present from the same elderly relative. I appreciate that there will be people here who handle them within a business, but how many do people have to process for personal business?
 

Bletchleyite

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How often do people here have anything to do with cheques, either paying for something with them or receiving them? For the last few years, my experience of them has been limited to receiving one each year as a birthday present from the same elderly relative. I appreciate that there will be people here who handle them within a business, but how many do people have to process for personal business?

The only place I get them from now is our Scout Group for expenses purposes, and I don't write them because my bank (Monzo) doesn't offer them. However, there are now quite a number of dual-authorisation charity accounts offering BACS payments, so it's about time we switched, really.
 

Peter Mugridge

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How often do people here have anything to do with cheques, either paying for something with them or receiving them? For the last few years, my experience of them has been limited to receiving one each year as a birthday present from the same elderly relative. I appreciate that there will be people here who handle them within a business, but how many do people have to process for personal business?

I still take my money out of the bank the old way, Cheque payable to self over the counter. Do issue a fair few cheques for other purposes as well.
 

Bedpan

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I still take my money out of the bank the old way, Cheque payable to self over the counter. Do issue a fair few cheques for other purposes as well.
Our pensioners association asks for a cheque when paying for something they are organising, and also I give the occasional cheque to the window cleaner if I haven't got cash. Can't think of any other times I write one though, so it must be about six a year.
 

whhistle

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Safety video ?
Yeah, about bank safety, like keeping your password safe, using long passwords...
Maybe it's a new thing... or old.
Still forces you to go in instead of being able to open wholly online.
 

gswindale

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How often do people here have anything to do with cheques, either paying for something with them or receiving them? For the last few years, my experience of them has been limited to receiving one each year as a birthday present from the same elderly relative. I appreciate that there will be people here who handle them within a business, but how many do people have to process for personal business?
Very rarely - the only one for me in the last 3 years was a premium bond payout (£25), which reminds me that I need to get the online management of my account with that sorted. Took me a couple of months from receiving it to paying it in as I had no real need to visit town until I did ( as it isn't a cheque as such, not sure if the app can scan it?).

We do still get cheques at work, but the amount has dropped considerably over the last ten years - back then we'd need a trip to the bank at least twice a week - now your lucky if we go once a week.
 

underbank

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I appreciate that there will be people here who handle them within a business, but how many do people have to process for personal business?

Funnily enough I run a business dealing with both other businesses and private individuals. Every single business pays us electronically, and the vast majority of private customers post us a cheque, even the younger ones. I find it really strange considering that we're constantly told how today's young do everything on their iphones. I can understand if the OAPS send cheque, but in fact, most of my OAP clients pay online now. I must have a weird customer base I guess!
 

Cowley

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Funnily enough I run a business dealing with both other businesses and private individuals. Every single business pays us electronically, and the vast majority of private customers post us a cheque, even the younger ones. I find it really strange considering that we're constantly told how today's young do everything on their iphones. I can understand if the OAPS send cheque, but in fact, most of my OAP clients pay online now. I must have a weird customer base I guess!
I have some customers that pay by cheque. I think sometimes it's because it gives them a couple of days extra to make sure they've got enough money cleared.
 
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